Josh DeTar: Welcome to another episode of the Digital Banking Podcast. My guest today is Shane Saunders, CEO of Mocse Credit Union Question. Have you ever been scrolling on LinkedIn and all of a sudden seen a picture of an adorable baby cow pop up in your feed? If the answer to that is yes, you follow Shane. If the answer is no, you need to follow Shane.

Trust me when I say your day will be brighter for it. It’s funny. Sometimes I forget. I host a podcast. I’ve been enamored with Shane and his credit union for quite some time in a world of lackluster marketing and financial services. Mocse has always stood out to me. I love to see what their marketing team has put out.

I’m just sad. It took me this long to think, man, I should really invite Shane to be a guest on the podcast. Shane [00:03:00] started his adult life digging trenches to lay electrical. I. Realizing that didn’t sound like too exciting of a future. He took a call from a Navy recruiter and set off on an aircraft carrier to experience the world.

After his tour of service with the Navy ended, he used his GI bill to get a degree in marketing something that he quickly fell in love with through a series of steps he found his way into a janitor’s closet as the marketing director for a tiny credit union in Florida with an even smaller marketing budget.

But it taught him to be creative, to be scrappy, and that the most fun was had when he was flirting with the line of, will this marketing campaign get me fired or promoted? Fast forward to today, and Shane has kept to those humble roots in scrappy ways. He says that even though he has this title that’s assigned to him of CEO, he’s just a regular guy.

Someone who wants to do fun things with cool people, and just like his wife who got sucked down the rabbit hole of beekeeping to having chickens, to having goats [00:04:00] and raised flower beds and now cows. Shane pours his heart and soul into the industry. He loves the impact it has on people in the communities it serves, and the desire to market the ever living crap outta the amazing work credit unions do day in and day out.

So Shane, welcome to the show, man.

Shane Saunders: Hey, thanks a lot and thanks for that intro. Funny thing about the, the baby cow picture. I remember when I posted that, I was thinking, I don’t know, is this like appropriate, LinkedIn is headshot and conference pictures and all of that. And yeah, why not? Maybe that’s the reason to post it

LinkedIn is headshot and conference pictures.

And, and oftentimes obviously we’re living this sort of, professional persona and I thought, eh, what the heck? I’ll just throw out this picture of a different part of my life. The funny thing about that is not only did I get a ton of feedback on LinkedIn, like everywhere I [00:05:00] go, like when I introduce myself, it’s like the guy with the baby cow. That’s, that somehow has become my

Josh: That’s your thing.

Shane: baby cow. But it’s

Josh: I, I love it. No, I think, I think that’s a really good point though, Shane. I, I don’t know if it’s, it almost feels like Covid was a kind of a catalyst for this. I could be crazy or maybe I’m just paying attention more, but I feel like LinkedIn has changed a little bit, and while it’s not like the memes of Instagram and the reels of TikTok and whatever, that kind of thing.

It. It has become a little bit more personal and I for one personally appreciate it because I think I’ve gotten to a point, at least in my like age and professional career, there’s no such thing as professional and personal life anymore. There’s just life and I just want to interact with cool people.

And if you’re a cool person and you’re fun to be around, there’s no difference [00:06:00] between work and personal life anymore in that like they just blend.

Shane: I love that and agree a hundred percent. And that’s a great observation, and I think you’re spot on in terms of really changed that, right? We were all locked down in our spare bedrooms, working from home. And that experience, we got to know so much more about each other and

Lives and the, the kids would come running in and all kinds of chaos would happen, and that line really did get blurred.

But end I don’t know I think overall it’s a positive thing because we’re not, you’re not just who runs the company or Josh, the podcaster. You’re also the husband, Josh, the little bit of amateur farming yourself I recently learned. And so none of us are those. Kind of flat one dimensional characters we’re whole people. So 

Josh: I like that.

Shane: balance, a much better evolution

Josh: That’s a good way of [00:07:00] putting it. We’re not this one dimensional facade of what we put on for the corporate world. Like we’re a very multidimensional human and there’s so much that makes that up. And I would argue that, my personal life impacts and influences who I am professionally more than anything.

Shane: Oh yeah, for sure. I agree with that percent. There’s, we talked about cow and the work like on, on the farm, the work of running a farm there really is it impacts me every day in terms of I start every day outside on a pasture and I finish every day outside on a pasture. And in my role. I gotta tell you, it is, I, while I don’t recommend farming, you can find some time, that is that pasture time when it’s just, world drops away. You have a really, a basic cow sitting in front of you, chewing on grass, birds are flying overhead, and you can not just decompress, but [00:08:00] also think without all the noise and chaos around you, it’s so important.

And so you’re right. Not only I am bringing work on the pasture in terms of, I’m thinking, but I’m thinking at a different pace

Josh: Yeah.

Shane: way. because of that thought, I’m bringing that back to work. And, i, I think I’m better for that. certainly feel better about that, bringing my whole self to work.

E everything I’m doing, so

Josh: That’s super cool. Yeah, I like that. And I appreciate what you were saying too about, I think Covid did exposed us to each other’s lives a little bit more. And perfect case more. You probably hear my kids in the background right now. It’s and I remember Shane, like literally, if I go back to 2019, I remember because we were a remote organization before the pandemic, so I always was taking Zoom calls with credit unions, i. And I’m not gonna lie, man, I did, I totally put you like, oh gosh, the CEO of the credit union’s on [00:09:00] the call gotta put ’em on a pedestal. I’ve gotta be on my best behavior. I gotta make sure my environment is perfect. God forbid one of the kids come running in and then when Covid happened, you were like, then you were on the phone with that CEO and they were home and their kids ran in.

And I was like, you know what? We’re all just people, man. Like why are we like, putting this wall up? And I started to just, we would, I’d be on a call and somebody’s kid would run in and they’d be like, oh, sorry I’m like no, bring the kid in. Like I, what’s their name?

Tell me about ’em. What grade are you? What are you learning in school? Because yeah, it’s like that’s when you start to learn about people and you’re like, okay, I actually understand what makes you tick and how you define success in life, both personally and professionally. And I think it just changes everything.

And so I actually really appreciated that. Now I’m be the first one to tell you I’m unabashed about it. I could be on a call with Navy Fed and their executive team, and if my 1-year-old daughter runs into my office and she wants a hug, I tell you what I’m, [00:10:00] nothing is more important than that to me.

Shane: Yep. Amen. Yeah. That, that is so good. And, fundamentally we are, social creatures and we love to engage with other human beings. And it is funny if you think about it pre COVID we did tend to walk around on almost as these caricatures of ourselves, Shane, the executive, and then, will not that will not cross the boundary into Shane the farmer and never the twain shall meet. but e even here in, Modesto is, it’s a smaller kind of community and it’s cool when someone I work with sees me, in a farm store or in Home Depot and, I look. Very destitute and I I need some help. But it’s also good and funny.

And I think it, it helps in, in everything in the relationships and, if it’s, coworkers at work and they see me in that [00:11:00] environment, it makes our work life and work relationship just that much warmer.

Josh: Yeah.

Shane: And a weird thing to say that Covid was probably good, but certainly in that regard, I think it was good.

Josh: Yeah, I agree. I think about it the same way, and it is true. I like the more you interact with people, with all the versions of yourself, the more real, the relationship actually becomes too. Then that’s where I think real trust is built and the magic happens when there’s trust. And especially I, this is a good dovetail actually.

I didn’t plan this, especially when you’re talking about something that’s super creative, like marketing, right? And being able to trust and say, Hey, I got this crazy idea Shane, and this might get me fired, but if not, it’s gonna be awesome,

Shane: yeah.

Josh: right? And when you have that deeper relationship with somebody on your team, that trust level’s gonna be a lot higher.

I.

Shane: Yes, and absolutely the trust [00:12:00] in them to actually execute and do the thing and to take the risk the trust that they have in, in. You as a leader and me as a leader, that they can take that risk and potentially fail and we’re gonna be there for them and we’re not gonna see them as that failure.

We’re gonna

Josh: Yeah.

Shane: true human being. And that it’s such a great point. And man, is everything.

The, it’s that foundational layer of five dysfunctions of a team and everything that we’ve read about, in terms of leadership and human relationships and such a good point.

And yeah, it’s hard to trust somebody that you don’t, you can’t see past that unidimensional facade.

Josh: Yeah.

Shane: taking those creative risks, especially in marketing, especially in a fast moving, very dynamic environment like we’re in where we have to be. I. Incredibly experimental, that [00:13:00] trust in each other, both me having trust in the team to take the risks and them having the trust in me to support them when they do is, so key.

So key. I.

Josh: I can’t speak for your team, but I have to imagine that if somebody maybe new joins Mocse , right? And they do, they’re like, oh man, gotta put, Shane, the CEO on a pedestal and be on eggshells around him, and then they’re in Home Depot c covered in cow poop. They’re probably like, ah, you know what he’s just a regular dude.

Ah, I could probably just have a normal conversation with him.

Shane: Yes, a absolutely and that’s, there’s it can be challenging. It’s something that since I’ve come into Mocse really in tune with, the fact that it doesn’t matter who I am, it, you and I could swap places. walk around and have this title of CEO and it’s just such a heavy, laden title and people bring all kinds of baggage to it.

And [00:14:00] if, it’s I really have to work hard to. up and help people see yes, I have a job.  and it’s no more important or less important than any other job in the credit union. I talk with every new hire and they come in and one of the last things I tell ’em is, I know that my, I know that my title’s big.

I understand that and I know it’s easy for me to say, when you see me, just stop me if you wanna talk

Or come to my office. But I always tell ’em, and I absolutely believe it, that, I may be the most disposable person in the credit union. The street, get hit by a truck, we’re gonna make loans, we’re gonna take deposits.

Members are gonna log into online banking, everything’s gonna work just fine our contact center gets taken out. We’re like dead in the water. Like we got a real problem. And I try to tell ’em that I have a job. It’s to set the vision and help guide us and look further out. [00:15:00] but you, your job is incredibly important, whatever that they’re doing. And so to try to, I try right from day one to move some of that mysticism around that title and, and, hopefully make myself approachable.

Josh: This is what’s funny about this podcast too, right? Is I hopefully people know at this point, like we do zero prep going into these episodes. So Shane and I have talked about nothing about what we’re actually gonna talk about today. And, it’s always funny the direction that it ultimately ends up taking.

But, that is such a good point of just thinking about, I think and I feel like I’ve made this kind of comment on the podcast before, Shane, that you know, sometimes like we, we say the thing or we read the thing and we know that’s what we’re supposed to do, but then we do something different.

And I think a lot of times you find people who find their way into leadership roles. And we all know that the right thing to say and do is that actually as a leader, like I do very little, I actually just empower others to do the [00:16:00] things. And if I’m trying to do that for them, that’s a problem. And if I’m not getting out of the way and allowing them to do and use their unique gifts and skills and experiences and perspectives that I’m not actually doing a good job.

But it is really hard to live that sometimes. And you do, you’re like I’m the one in charge, so I have to do the thing, or I have to make the decision, or, and it’s in all reality I’m probably the least important person on my entire team, right? 

Shane: No that’s exactly it. And it is, and is easy to fall into that trap of making the decisions. And part of the challenge is with that positional power and the title and all of that, people are all too willing and happy to let you make that decision or hand that decision to you.

And you’re right, it’s so easy, especially as a leader. Just grab it and make that decision or do that thing. And man I’m under no [00:17:00] illusion that I have it all dialed in and perfect. That’s what I try to work on every day is, is to not get caught in that trap really help the team realize their talents.

’cause so right. And it’s something I try to tell everybody in the credit union, certainly new folks, that if we’re reliant on the success of the credit union to be coming solely from what comes outta my head,

Josh: Yeah.

Shane: right? Because I’m like all of us, I’m, flawed and make mistakes, and have faulty reasoning and all of that stuff. But together, I. Our combined brain power and different perspectives. That’s what’s gonna make us successful. And to your point, it’s we have to live it as leaders and it’s not always easy for sure.

Josh: I have a super real example from literally an hour ago.

Shane: Yeah.

Josh: And so this morning my marketing director, had a call to go over how to use some new templates [00:18:00] for some of the different content and things that we create and stuff. And, and again, it’s. On paper, he reports to me.

I approve his PTO and his expense reports, and I am his boss. And Shane not, not six hours later I screwed up and did the process wrong and man did, he just berate me in a public slack channel over it and was like, are you kidding me, bro? We just met on this, and it’s and that’s just, it’s such an awesome reminder and an appreciation of man that tells me I feel really good about the team.

Because to your point, it’s gosh if it had been up to me how we had done that, I clearly would’ve done it wrong. And I had somebody with a better skillset. And a different perspective, but it was just like, I don’t know, like I, I geek out that I love that. Like he just took me to class in front of everybody on that.

I’m like, you know what? That makes me feel good about the culture that we build if somebody feels comfortable in that. But at the same [00:19:00] time, it, like you were saying, it’s just, it can be really hard and I’m sitting here giving you an example where I feel like I did the right thing and had built the right culture, but at the same time, I probably have 10 examples of where I’ve done it wrong.

Shane: Oh, yeah, a hundred percent. That’s part of a journey. And yeah, that says a lot. It says a lot when someone on your team can give you a little crap and, and, call you out and take you a task. And it’s, it says a lot and it’s so important, right? It’s, man the terrifying scenario is the emperor’s new close,

Just, just telling you how awesome you are and everything you’re doing is perfect, and we know that’s not the case.

That’s a great culture to, to, to reinforce for sure.

Josh: I tell you what, man, I, like I said, introducing you. I have really been looking forward to this episode with you. Because, and for those of you listening in, Shane and I are recording literally on a Friday night. And, I think if it wasn’t for the fact that at some point my wife’s gonna come in here and be like, Hey dude, like we [00:20:00] gotta have dinner.

Like the kids are hungry, we could probably go all night long because, because I really genuinely am impressed by and excited to see the content that your credit union is turning out. And again, longtime listeners of this podcast are no stranger to, and I’m overgeneralizing, please don’t like, take me into the parking lot over this.

But community financial services and specifically credit unions as a whole, as an industry are not good at marketing. Period. I will say it. We see it time and time again, and in all reality it’s reflected in, if you look at national averages for membership growth, like the data doesn’t lie. I’m sorry.

And I wanna change that, and I wanna see that changed. And we’ve had lots of guests on the podcast, from different marketing firms that are trying to help to different, folks. But this is really exciting for me because I’m actually getting to talk to a credit union that I think is challenging.

That stereotype is challenging the status quo and is really stepping outside of the [00:21:00] traditional boxes and saying, Hey, if we applied the same, game theory that we’ve applied for, how we attract members from 20 years ago, 10 years ago, five years ago. Today we will not be successful, so we’re gonna change the game.

And I think it’s really cool to see you guys changing the game. Shane, I would love to just have you walk us through maybe a little bit of just the evolution of, what were some of the early internal conversations that you guys had as a team, and how did that kind of set the direction for how you think about marketing at Mocse ?

And then what are some of the examples of what that’s turned into?

Shane: Yeah, ab, absolutely. I’ve been at Mocse four and a half years, and the first thing we did is we spent six to eight months, building out a broader vision for the organization. And we built out a year vision, and it has five broad themes that we focus on. I gotta tell you the concept in that [00:22:00] structure was completely ripped off from my former boss. And that’s I’ll give him a shout out, mark Zuck at Maps. And, I was really privileged to, to work with him, for six years went through this, vision building process. And really took that kind of model to Mocse 

And, built out a vision here. And it wasn’t me, it was the entire team.

Like I said, it took six to eight months. We, we brought all stakeholder holders to the table, everybody, community members, non-members,

Board, retirees, everybody. And, really started digging down into what is Mocse . at, where are our gaps? Where’s the future headed? do we need to do to best position ourselves for the future? And one of those big themes was ensuring that our [00:23:00] brand resonates in our markets. And so that was the, embryonic material for a rebranding. So we created the vision out of that we discovered, a little bit of who we are and what’s our genetic material, and how do we reposition our brand. for the future that we imagine for ourselves in this 10 year vision. And so coming out of that, that embarked us, that sort of took us, I, and I should stop here and pause and say on that 10 year vision with those five themes, what they started serving as, right from the moment that we put ’em together to current day is just a filter, just a set of filters is the decision we’re making now, us further towards that tenure vision. And one of those being a highly resonant local brand, locally [00:24:00] relevant brand. That set us off on a, on another path, exploring the brand we had, digging in deeper to understand who we were, what, who people thought we were, and then to reimagine and re envision the brand. and there’s a couple of cool elements that came out of that.

One is the obvious, the name, when you pronounce it Mocse , a big name to live up to from a marketing perspective, right? 

Josh: Yeah, totally.

Shane: Mocse and 

Josh: And not have any guts. Yeah.

Shane: photography, check out our low rates. No, we can’t. You, it, you just it would be like almost illegal to do that with a name like Mocse . I. And the other element was this core dimension when we just really dug down and looked at what is our genetic makeup? Who are we really? And out of that we [00:25:00] produced a, a brand persona, Sona. And what we decided is as an organization, we’re audaciously authentic and, that brand persona, that is driving and filtering everything we do from a branding perspective. Now, we were, at this point, we were, a little sleepy. We were a bit of a sleepy credit union. We had. Gotten a little complacent.

And part of that is, this is not, this is a natural life cycle, right? Of every business, certainly every credit union. happened is, we just had this whole, leadership team that grew up together, and I came in on the heels of a retiring CEO, who had been here 41 years, and then there was just a parade of retirements.

The CFO had been here 38 years. The head of marketing at that point, even before the rebranding, retired and she was here [00:26:00] 35 years.

Josh: Wow.

Shane: I think what had happened is a very natural. Corporate lifecycle of an organization where people had grown up together, gotten super comfortable, the organization had gotten a little bit, little bit, static and we forgot like, when you do that you forget who you are

Josh: Yeah.

Shane: right.

And you just start to go through the motions and do the transactions. And so what we really did is spend a lot of time asking who we were. And so it’s a funny thing to say we’re audaciously authentic when we’ve been a bit static for a number of years. really when you dig into the past of the credit union, you look at how we started and where we came from, that’s actually exactly what we are.

And even the fact that we had navigated some really challenging [00:27:00] times, and, when I got into credit unions, there were. 12,500 of them

Now there’s 4,500. And just the fact that Mocse was still standing talks about a little bit of audacity. 

Josh: Yeah,

Shane: But when you look back in the past, we were founded it, it’s a classic credit union story, but it is audacious.

We were founded in couple’s kitchen, Harry and Lucille Hammer. 

Josh: I love that.

Shane: and they ran it outta their kitchen for, employees of the local school district. And people would come. I, oh I gotta tell you I’m gonna take a quick detour. I just, talked with a member the other day, years old, I’m telling you, Josh, this guy he’s sharper than you and I put together.

Josh: That’s awesome.

Shane: oh, he is like on his game. And it turns out he was. The credit union was 1-year-old when he joined

Josh: Wow.

Shane: and he [00:28:00] talked about he got his first car loan, it was a used station wagon for 300 bucks.

Josh: Nice.

Shane: And he had to get, and he had to get a loan and, he did it in that kitchen.

Like I had never met anyone who like did anything in the kitchen. he said, yeah I got my

Josh: Wow.

Shane: the kitchen of Harry and Lucille. And he said the credit union was so small, they’re doing a loan for $300 that they said, we’ll get back to you when we have enough deposits to fund your loan.

Your $300 loan. Isn’t that rad?

Josh: That’s so cool. But that is the cooperative movement, right? Like to the nth degree?

Shane: Yeah. And you think about a financial institution started in a kitchen and scrappy enough

To, continue on and build something sustainable. Then, so as Harry and Lucille who were, running it outta their kitchen, Lucille actually was the first CEO. And so here you [00:29:00] had in, in the fifties, a female CEO of a financial institution. When, think about the 1950s, how many women were there running anything to do with finance, right? It was an old boys club and

Josh: Yeah, totally.

Shane: and suits, and we got some cool old pictures around of her and she looked tough, man. She’s got

Josh: That’s rad.

Shane: I can’t even make eye contact with this one picture.

I’m like, man, that, that’s intense. She’s intense.

But when you think about that, when you think about, our first CEO was a woman when there weren’t women running credit unions or banks in the kitchen. The fact that we’re still standing after all of these challenges and two thirds of the in industry like disappeared, we are audaciously authentic,

Josh: yeah.

Shane: it takes a lot of audacity to do that. The authenticity comes from, man, the people [00:30:00] here are real. We’re just real. They’re from here. They, born and raised here, grew up here, met their, we have so many classic stories of who met their high school sweetheart, they got married, started the family. have, two, two people on our leadership team. I. one is a police chief of a local town called Oakdale, which is known as the cowboy capital of the world.

Josh: Really?

Shane: Yes. And

Josh: Huh.

Shane: A police chief of Riverbank. So they grew up and they became chief of police in their local hometown.

It’s very, very authentic. It’s like Americana, true Americana. So you take that aud audacity and you take that authenticity through we all of this is a summation of many months of conversations with whole team. Where at the end we’re like, [00:31:00] yeah, we’re audaciously authentic. So now in terms of branding and marketing and going forward, we try to do and we do, we fall into these, you start to slip and start to do the same old thing. And then we ask ourselves what would an audaciously authentic company do? And how would an audaciously authentic company solve this problem? And, and that’s how we’ve, made decisions not only around marketing, but product development and the way that we engage with the community and all of that. It’s been fun. It’s been a heck of a fun ride for sure.

Josh: And you were talking about, I think the more you do it, the deeper the rut gets and the deeper the rut is, the harder it is to get out.

Shane: Yes. That’s exactly right. And having that focusing or that focusing those kind of guardrails that make you stop. And we say it in meetings ’cause we catch ourselves all the time.

We’ll start [00:32:00] to go down and let’s do this and let’s do that. And we’re getting better and better.

But someone on the team will say, okay, time out. What would an audaciously authentic company do? And then everyone just it just stops us in our tracks. It’s okay, hold on a second. Wait, we gotta stop. We’re doing the same old, just like everyone else is doing. And if we’re doing it the same thing everyone else is doing, then you know, why come to us.

Why? What’s gonna make us different?

Josh: Yeah. That is, man, that is the heart of the question if you ask me, right? ‘Cause you, I’m gonna, I’m gonna touch back on, you picked on it, so I’m gonna pick on it too, right? Dude, I can drive down, I five and I can see 10 different billboards for 10 different financial institutions saying they’ve got the best rates.

Shane: Yep.

Josh: And I’m like, cool. Is that really all you’ve got going for you? And why would I do business with you over somebody else if your rate might actually even be a little bit higher? What’s the [00:33:00] value? Where is the value that you bring to me? And it is, dude, I hate to say it, but I feel like that so many of us have gotten caught into that trap of.

Marketing based on products and rates and things. And the challenge is that the world has changed so much. And I can go to chat GPT and say, I’m looking for this type of product, scour the internet and go find me whoever has the lowest rate that I can secure with X, Y, Z.

And I can figure that out, right? And so I’m probably never even gonna see your marketing messaging. Now am I saying that everyone is thinking like me and using chat GPT to do that? Maybe not today, but I bet you a lot of people are. And I bet tomorrow it’s gonna be more and the next day it’s gonna be even more, right?

And so those kinds of things, technology is actually gonna eliminate that as a differentiator because I’ll just quickly say, go find me the [00:34:00] lowest rate. And if that’s what I’m buying based on, then you and every other credit union around you are now in a rate war to the bottom. And that’s a sucky world to be in.

Shane: yeah you nailed it. And our industry is, yeah so caught in that trap. wants to make it about rates. And early on we’re way better now in product development and thinking about, how do we grow and who do we attract and how do we attract them? Days people were thinking, early days here at Mocse , people were thinking, just put out the big rate.

Or if you want more car loans, lower the rate. And, and something that we’ve talked about a lot here, something that I’ve said, because I’ve been fortunate, I’ve had a long marketing runway, I’ve said, okay, great, everybody is driven by price. So if I go out in the parking lot, every car is gonna be the cheapest car in the parking lot, right?

Because, all we worry about is how much we’re paying for something and [00:35:00] there’s not gonna be a Beamer or Mercedes out

Josh: That’s a great point.

Shane: And it’s absolutely true, right? People, there are people who buy on rate. We know that for sure. But are those the people we want? And the answer that we’ve come to at Mocse is, no, we’re it’s value. And man you nailed it. I want you to come in and give a presentation to the team. Like value that’s, that word has been like, preached a lot here in Mocse . It

Price is one small component of value and, not even the most important and the most easy to copy. And, and yeah, we can’t, you’re right, it is a race to the bottom and it’s something that we’ve talked about here. If we’re competing on price, the big banks, bank of America, Wells Fargo, anybody can beat us any day of the week they can sustain pain in our market a lot longer than we can.

Josh: That’s a good point.

Shane: at a very low margin. So what we have to do is beat in other [00:36:00] ways, and especially at our size. And I hope more credit unions get that message and man you keep preaching.

Josh: I am trying, man. I’m trying, but it’s, that’s why I need people like you to talk about it too, is, I think that’s, I really like using the analogy of if you go out into the parking lot, we should just see, what base model 1989 Toyota Corolla’s out there and we don’t.

And I think to that same token think about, go, just, I’m actually, I’m super curious if you’re listening to this podcast, when you’re done, when you’re like, doing your late night doom scrolling on Instagram, pay attention to the ads that you get on Instagram and you will absolutely, probably get some things.

That are possibly touching on price, but I would argue that it’s a lot less about that. And what they have done is whatever product is being pitched to you is something that is probably fairly niche. It’s something [00:37:00] that’s probably very data driven based on the interactions across the internet you’ve had with other products, services, and companies.

And they’re pitching their value to you, whether it be a mattress that says, Hey, we’re the premium mattress that you’re gonna get the best night’s sleep out of, or whatever it may be. And I think that there’s a combination of one, just human nature and behavior, right? And we work hard for our money, so we want to extract value out of it when we spend it.

And so there’s gotta be some sort of gratification that comes with that. And at the same time, I think that there’s an interesting and I’ve talked about this, quite a few times on the podcast. I don’t know if I would necessarily call it a resurgence, but. There’s like a resurgence in this desire to shop local and shop small.

It’s why you see the massive success of Etsy, right? Is you know people are shopping at farmer’s markets again, right? Like you’re starting to see some of that. And so I would [00:38:00] argue that younger consumers hint, hint, who you wanna attract credit unions, right? Actually put a lot of value on, ah, no, this is a part of my community.

Or, I’m buying based on the foundational principles and beliefs and attributes of this company and I’m buying their product because of maybe their corporate social responsibility program. People are literally buying because of those types of things. And I’ve always made the argument that if you think about the good guys in banking, it’s freaking credit unions, man.

Like you ca I’m sorry, but if you want to try and argue to me that Venmo gives two craps about you as a consumer. You’re gonna lose that argument with me all day every day. But like you were talking about the 91-year-old member, right? How many stories do you have? If you asked across your credit union membership, how many stories do you have that would probably bring a tear to your eye about the impact that you have on somebody’s life, [00:39:00] right?

And so that’s value.

Shane: It. Amen. It value. And like for that 91-year-old member, it was relationship o over decades. And, on the other side of the age spectrum, I gotta tell you, I was at a, I was participating in a local event that just had a bunch of graduating high school seniors. There were local professionals and leaders, just mentoring them for a day and going over resumes and talking to them. And I just serendipity, I was paired up with this young lady, bright, headed off to college. Young woman of color, really ambitious.

Josh: Nice.

Shane: she said, so what are, what do you do, sir? Which I’ll never get used to ever in my life, but, I work at Mocse Credit Union. And her eyes lit up she’s I love Mocse , my mom and I [00:40:00] love Mocse . And she said, you are, you’re rebranding. She talked about our rebranding. She

Josh: What.

Shane: it’s so bright and lively. And, yeah.

Talk about getting teary eyed, man. I was like, please tell me more.

Josh: Yeah.

Shane: She pulled out. I maybe later on I’ll send you a picture. I got a picture of her holding her debit card, and she pulled that out and showed me. Yeah. And she was stoked. And I was asking her, ’cause she’s gonna head off to college in California, a little ways away.

And she’s no, I’m gonna, I’m gonna keep my accounts with Mocse . what her

Josh: Dope.

Shane: was, it really, I. Y you we’re, sometimes you wonder if you’re breathing your own exhaust with rebranding and marketing and, 

Josh: yeah, totally.

Shane: myself a story that I want to hear? But her comment was, so lively. It’s not boring like a bank.

And love Mocse . And so we got the multiple generations.

Josh: It’s cool.[00:41:00] 

Shane: like, we’re hitting the mark on the look and feel the impression of what the brand is with this 18-year-old young lady who is

Josh: That’s awesome.

Shane: sketch out my ideal target, it might, it’s, she’s pretty close to it, and, but yeah. And one thing she never mentioned was, you’re free checking or this is free or that doesn’t cost a lot. was all around how lively we were. We weren’t boring like a bank. She loves the people. There there’s a whole value set there that we can address with a younger generation. And it, to your point, it doesn’t have to be a race for the bottom.

Josh: Yeah. Man, I’m, that’s so cool about the story with her pulling out her debit card. So I had a similar experience recently, and it was the first time I’d ever had this experience in all the travel that I do, in all the credit unions that I meet. And outta respect for them. I can’t name the name [00:42:00] of the credit union right now, but, but we were visiting a credit union and, so anybody who knows me and our senior solutions consultant, Jimmy Miller, enough knows we have a reputation for getting up at five in the morning and going, hitting the gym together.

And that’s like the start to our day when we’re on the road together. And in true fashion, Jimmy and I are, up at five in the morning, we find wherever the local gym is closest to the credit union, can’t do the hotel gym. So we go to the gym. Okay. And we were going to, we like brought our backpacks with our clothes to change into, we were gonna shower at the gym, go straight to the credit union, and I had a box of stuff that we were bringing for the credit union.

And and I asked the guy at the gym counter, I was like, Hey, do you mind if I could store this? I don’t have to lug it around the gym with me. And he was like, oh yeah, no problem. Just keep it behind the desk. And he was like, as long as it’s not like a box of snakes or anything, and it starts this whole funny conversation. We just start chatting and then he is like, what is it? And he was like, oh, what are you doing here? [00:43:00] And I was like, oh, we’re here to meet with a credit union. And he was like, oh yeah, who’s that? And I said, the name of the credit union And Shane, it was I’ll never forget this.

It was one of the coolest moments, like in my career of going and meeting credit unions. I’m not kidding. Five different employees from behind the counter at this gym without their debit cards and slap ’em down on the counter. And they’re like, we’re members. They’re the best. And every single one of ’em, yeah, nobody told us.

Oh, I love ’em. They saved me a 10th of a point on my, truck loan, right? They all said, oh, I love them. Same thing, like they’re a part of our community. They’ve been a part of my family, like they are a part of my story of my financial life. And it was just so cool to see that community rally around that credit union.

And I tell you what, it made me like 10 times more excited to go into the meeting with that credit union later that day. And I was like, the first thing I want to tell them is that story. And I was like, you’ve got something special. [00:44:00] That’s cool.

Shane: yes. Man. That, yeah, that is cool. And it’s, so funny because it’s the, our industry, we get out a lot and we talk with a lot of people and, both you and I and, a lot of leaders in our industry. And there is, there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of, lack of belief and faith and lack of appreciation for what we actually are providing

Josh: Yeah.

Shane: to our members. And that’s such a great example, which you just laid out. My 91-year-old member, the 18-year-old member. It’s so easy for us to get lost in oh, all we’re doing is managing risk and taking money in and lending it out. We’re really not doing anything that’s important, but what we do is incredibly important

Josh: Yeah.

Shane: and, not only just for helping people with their financial lives, but keeping them connected with their community, making them feel [00:45:00] proud.

One of the comments that we hear about Mocse all the time is we get out a lot in the community and we go way beyond just the banner, right? If we’re involved in something, we’re rolling up our sleeves and we’re out. Packing boxes or doing stuff. And I constantly hear from members like, I see us everywhere.

I see Mocse everywhere.

Josh: That’s cool.

Shane: and we can do that in our community. Like the big banks, Citibank or Chase or whatever. They can come and they can write the check and they might have their area market person, but we live here, our roots are here. People see us here and that means something,

Josh: Yeah.

Shane: right? And and I think we credit unions. We sure change ourselves a lot on that. We think that we have to be best technology. No, we gotta be good there. There’s a standard. certainly don’t have to [00:46:00] be the We think that we gotta be the cheapest or the best price.

Absolutely not. What we have to be is. I think at least for Mocse , true to who we are live that and don’t forget who we’re serving. And it’s, and if we do that, if we just, if we do that every day we’re gonna be more than Okay.

Josh: I really I want to touch back on a point that I think you were alluding to. I used to wonder why Shane, that. I, I don’t know if you, we’ve talked about my credit union story, but I was saved by a credit union, right? And so it’s one of the reasons why I’m so passionate about credit unions and I always argue, I’m like, there’s so many stories like mine.

And so I went to my credit union that I now sit on the board of, and I told our CEOI was like, dude, I have an amazing story of how you guys saved me. I was like, I’m gonna write it up. I’m gonna turn it into a marketing piece for [00:47:00] you and I’m gonna give it to you, use it. And I was like, because there’s so many more stories like mine and there’s probably somebody sitting there in a similar story to mine looking for a credit union.

And so I’ve always wondered, I’m like, why don’t credit unions use those stories? And it finally got to me and I want you to validate this. And I think it’s because it’s just normal for you.

You’re like, oh yeah, we saved Josh from financial peril. That was just Tuesday. No big deal.

And I’m like no, that literally altered the course of my life. That’s the level of impact that had. It altered the course of my life, and I am where I am today because of that course alteration. Can you not imagine what that does? And no, that’s not just any given Tuesday friends, that’s special,

Normal to you guys, so you don’t talk about it.

Shane: Yeah. You hit the nail on the head. You’re absolutely right. and I see that all the time when [00:48:00] traversing through the credit union and I’m able to have those focus conversations with people who are directly serving our members. And I might just top toss out a, just a flippant, random question.

Who’s, what’s the coolest thing that happened to you today on the phone? And then you get one of these stories back and you get one every single time. There’s always someone that we’re going the extra mile for and doing the thing that a much larger, organization can’t do.

And by larger, like bank large. is funny too, credit unions we’re in this, in this interesting mindset of we gotta grow, we gotta scale. And scaling is important. But you take the largest credit union, you take the largest 10 credit unions, they’re still just a smallish bank. You, it’s not it’s not like there’s, if you’re a $5 billion credit union, you’re still a small [00:49:00] community

Josh: Yep.

Shane: and you still got those stories all over the place, right?

Josh: Yeah. And, it’s just, it’s interesting how many of those stories are and like how impactful they are. So I, we were talking a little bit about our, Java for Kids campaign when we were chatting in GAC and, and we recently did some new stuff with that campaign. And I, I was talking about it to our entire company at our All Hands just the other night.

And Shane, man, I’m telling you like I, it might even be hard for me to talk about it here and now I’m like, I finished giving that and talking about the impact that program has and I get a Slack from a team member. Who’s one of our, product leaders, and she just opened up her whole story to me

And how her credit union impacted her and how credit unions for kids to him, back to her and [00:50:00] Shane.

I’m like sitting at my kitchen table, bawling my eyes out and my wife, I had it just on speaker on my phone and my wife is what is going on? Like, why are you crying over there? And I like, share some of this. Now my wife’s in tears and I’m like, but again, it’s just, it is such a reminder that there are so many stories like that where it’s not just like I got somebody into the product.

It’s so much more. And I think that’s special.

Shane: Yeah, absolutely. And as you’re talking it, it dawns on me that, that sort of, regularity and how normal it is to, for us to experience this every day. We’re not only are we doing a disservice, I think not telling our stories loudly and confidently enough in the market, but boy, you really got me thinking, Josh.

I don’t think we’re telling that story strong enough to our [00:51:00] employees. They see it and they live it, and they know it. But again, like you said, it becomes so normalized

Josh: Yeah.

Shane: I, one of the first things I’m gonna be doing after we get off this call is thinking, how do I disrupt that?

Just same old mindset and get everyone focused on, realize what you’re doing? you realize the impact that you’re having on people and really drive that home? It’s so important and it is what makes us different. Everyone wants to belong

Josh: Yeah.

Shane: to something that makes a difference, right?

And we do, we belong to that. And that’s cool.

Josh: I don’t wanna beat you up personally, but a part of the problem too is that you think about it and arguably because of your title, you are probably one of the most removed people from those stories because, the number one my favorite people to talk to in the world are tellers and folks in the call center, ’cause [00:52:00] they’ve got the stories.

That is the challenge, right? And it’s the higher up the food chain you get at the credit union and the bigger your credit union becomes, the harder it is to, to your point, break the, this is just normal and we don’t need to talk about it or celebrate it. And, how do we disseminate the impact that we have day in and day out for our members so that people are reminded not just on a surface or tertiary level, like the direct impact that you’re having on the people in the community that you serve.

Shane: yep. Yeah you’re absolutely right. And focusing in on that, and that’s not beating up, me or my title at all. I agree a hundred percent. It drives me crazy, how removed this position is from real. The real juju, of the business. ’cause we’re struggling and managing all this other

Josh: Yeah.

Shane: stuff.

But I remember coming in, this is my first [00:53:00] CEO gig, and I read, I think it was a book that was like 10 things every CEO Chanel.

And, one of the top 10 things was, you think you know what’s going on in your organization, you’re wrong. And that just, obviously it just sticks in my mind. I walk around here every day. It’s like thinking that, like I really don’t know what’s going on. I know parts and pieces, but, but yeah, there’s a lot. I don’t know.

Josh: That’s funny. Now, and, but it is, it’s kinda like what we were talking about earlier, like to some degree, it’s almost the unavoidable challenge that. As an organization grows and scales. Just, I’ll be super transparent with you. I struggle with that as we have grown and as I’ve rose into the ranks of our executive team is, I remember a day where I probably talk to every single one of our customers at least once a week, and now it’s just [00:54:00] physically impossible and that kind of sucks.

I hate that. You know what I mean? And it’s it’s a hard realization. So then it’s okay, how do I gotta fix that because just like you with your members, right? The pulse of my organization is my customers. So how do I try to find ways to make sure I’m super connected to understanding?

Are we really adding value or are we just check marking a box? Are we not even paying attention and we’re deaf?

Shane: right.

Josh: I don’t know. It’s a challenge,

Shane: such, such a challenge. I, I’d mentioned that 91-year-old member, and I hadn’t really thought about this till now, but thi this I’m happy about this and I need to find a way to amplify and continue to cultivate the way that I talked to him was somebody on the front line was talking to him and they said, [00:55:00] Shane should talk to this guy.

Shane would

Josh: dude. That’s awesome.

Cool.

Shane: And they came back and got me. but as we’re talking I’m thinking, yeah, I need to really, how do I help amplify that and cultivate that? So I’m just getting more of that and probably the same for you just getting more people going, oh, is that thing that

Josh: This is the thing.

Shane: stoked,

Josh: Yeah,

Shane: And, and that should help me get more connected. It’s funny ’cause it’s, it organizational structure. It’s not the people, but the structure doesn’t want you close to that.

Josh: yeah.

Shane: It’s weird. But it’s, yeah. It’s so important. I we need to do a regular call. ’cause 

Josh: I know it’s,

Shane: I wanna make sure I never get. That terrifies me. Like the fact that we are as humans, that we can get complacent and we can get here I am showing up to work again today and Oh gosh, [00:56:00] if, if I ever do that, it’s we’re in trouble.

Josh: Man, I tell you what, I talk to my wife about that all the time, and I’m like, you, I want you to be the sounding board for that because you know me better than anybody. And I work from home when I’m not traveling, she’s here with the kids and she totally hears me on calls and I’m like, Hey, if you ever hear me, talking about stuff where you can tell, I’m just packing it in or mailing it in and I’m doing the same thing I’ve always done.

Come yell at me and tell me that I’ve told you to not let me be that. And that brings me back to something I was actually, it’s funny, I took a note on and I was like, I want to come back to that because you had alluded to something. That I think is pretty interesting. And you talked about creating this like 10 year strategy and vision for the credit union, but you had talked about how it had to be, and I don’t remember the exact words that you used, but something to the effect of, flexible enough to say it was just guardrails.

And I’d love to get your thoughts on, especially in the [00:57:00] pace of the world of today, right? Like you were saying earlier, we’re not quite just like on the farm watching the cow, chew the grass and life just moves super fast these days. And especially thanks to technology, it moves really fast.

And the, pace of innovation and expectation for things like customer experience and all of that, it changes so fast that I would argue that if you have a solid, rigid 10 year roadmap, it’s only because it’s gonna take you 10 freaking years to do it. And not because you have a crystal ball to know what’s gonna happen in 10 years.

And so you have to have a long-term vision that says this is the core DNA of who we are. That will never change, but everything else around it has to be able to change at a moment’s notice. So how did you guys factor that? It, and I’m putting words in your mouth, but I think I’m right.

It sounds like you factored that thought process into that plan. So when you did that, how did you factor that kind of into your plan to [00:58:00] say, this is what will never change, and this is what should change every day.

Shane: this is what, yes. That’s a great question. Finding that right level of what’s actually, putting into sharp relief, like the general direction versus, something that’s hamstring, stringing us or making us hide bound. And I’d say what we, we focused on language and it’s almost, guiding core philosophies or principles. for example, one of our, of our big five themes is we are obsessed with member experience and like that. That should remain, as solid as the pyramids. Like we should always be obsessed with

Josh: Yeah.

Shane: experience. Now obviously the way that comes to fruition is gonna change and evolve and what, new generations, new [00:59:00] technologies and expectations. But it also speaks to a way of, of thinking. So it every, and boy, we are a long way off from, I, I’d say that’s the other thing is, everything is framed, it’s aspirational, but framed as a current state. So we are obsessed with member experience in reality. That’s where we want to be. And I don’t know, that we’ll ever truly 100% get there. Just simply because things do change and do get, complacent. And we do start doing the same thing over and over. But if we can use that as a, a focusing statement allows us, like everything we do we’re buying a new technology or looking at new processes, we say, okay is this really [01:00:00] being obsessed with member experience?

And sometimes we get into what is obsession? What does that sound like? What does it look like? And really try to unpack that and. Push us down the field in that direction, but not get too hung up on, any specific technology or, or, any, even one kind of physical model or retail model, but always thinking about where’s the member at, where are they headed to and how do we ensure that what we’re building gonna be, sustainable, but most importantly focused on that obsession with member experience.

Josh: Yeah,

Shane: have, member experience, we have some statement around technology, a statement around branding. That, that brand resonance element of the 10 year vision, we got logos and colors and all the sort of physical elements of the [01:01:00] brand, fundamentally like that. audaciously authentic is, that’s gotta be who we are. and we have to live that matter what we do. And right now we’re doing we wrapped a Volkswagen Buzz and we did a

Josh: I don’t that thing’s so cool.

Shane: on yeah. a mural, on a building. who knows what that is gonna be in three years.

Josh: Yep.

Shane: one thing is it better resonate with our market and it better be audaciously authentic.

Does that answer the question?

Josh: does very much and I think, one of the things that I really, you know, as I guess a fellow marketer, like I’m a big fan of words have meaning, right? And you use a specific word for a specific reason. And I think this’ll probably resonate with you as well. You wanna know, one of my favorite marketing campaigns I think I’ve ever seen in my entire life, and it’s always stuck with me, is one from Lexus.

And I’m sad that they changed it [01:02:00] because it, it shows that they don’t live that anymore, which is really sad. But the slogan was the relentless pursuit of perfection.

Shane: Yes.

Josh: I love that for a couple of reasons, because one, it said it was gonna be relentless, which obviously it wasn’t because that’s no longer their slogan.

But, but it was this, it’s a very intense word. It’s not like we’re gonna try really hard to do good. They were like, we are relentlessly gonna pursue perfection. And then using pursue didn’t say we are gonna relentlessly catch perfection. It was, we’re gonna chase perfection and we’re never gonna arrive.

And I’ve just always loved that thought process of Hey, I’m gonna relentlessly pursue perfection. I know I’m never gonna be perfect, but I am gonna give everything that I’ve got towards attempting to have that as my guiding light. And so I just, I think the words that we use as a part of our brand and our culture, it speaks so much [01:03:00] to what are the things that you value and where is the place that you put the emphasis?

Shane: Hundred percent, man, you. Yeah we are a couple of marketers for sure. ’cause that’s like catnet for me, man. Definitely words really do matter and how we frame things and Yeah. That, that, I remember that slogan. I can, in my mind as you were talking, I could picture the commercials

The black was really stark and the silver of the car

Josh: Yep. Yeah.

Shane: looked like it was meticulously like designed and that you’re so right.

That word relentless there, there’s almost, there’s it. To really push the bounds of a brand. It’s, you almost need that word that is just a smidge over the top. A little almost scary. And that relentless is that’s Terminator. That’s it is not stopping. And, and yet, and yeah, that’s, so like when we talk about our 10 year [01:04:00] vision and we think about obsession

Josh: Yep.

Shane: We say it like when I talk with, new employees as they’re coming in and talk to them about the 10 year vision I say obsessed.

That’s a strong word. You think about it, someone’s almost a little crazy when

Right? But that’s where we want to be. We want to be, we don’t wanna accept the status quo. We don’t wanna accept, we give an okay member experience. We have to be absolutely obsessed with it. And. Yeah.

Words, words in branding are it’s more important than the, than all the other visual stuff, right?

Josh: Yep. I wanted to come back to one, one last, thing that you were talking about earlier, and you were talking about just how authentic you are to your community and that you’re focused on who you’re right for and not really focused on who you’re not Right. For, [01:05:00] and I want to ask a really dangerous question that I have no idea how you’re gonna take, but the question is to a certain point, do you even need or want to grow?

And yes, we need to grow, we need to remain financially stable to be able to do the good things that we do. But can Mocse be audaciously authentic in New York?

Shane: Yeah. I’d say the answer is no. We are, one of, one of the other we have some deeper brand dimensions, and, audaciously, authentic is the persona. One of the deeper dimensions is hyperlocal. Like really to be plugged in, woven in, rooted in part of the community we’re in.

And you think through, if we go back to the mural on the building that we did and, just quick background, ugly building, [01:06:00] so ugly. We were thinking about tearing it down or, moving out or selling it. And we walked around downtown Modesto and downtown Modesto. It, we, there’s a visit.

Modesto has a mural map with murals and. Descriptions and the names of the murals and the

Josh: Oh, cool.

Shane: Yeah. All over downtown are murals. And, and so we took a step back and said, we’re in downtown Modesto with one of the ugliest buildings downtown. And one of the things that makes it ugly is it had giant swaths of open, empty space on the building.

And, we had to stop and say, are we doing in a downtown that prides itself on its mural scene. And, so much so that it’s got a map and they give tours

Josh: Yeah.

Shane: We have got we need to not look at ourselves [01:07:00] as not being a part of downtown, but we need to deeply en mesh, hyperlocal, be authentic to our community and to who we are.

And, and I won’t take too long, but on the story about the mural, I saw the murals. I called, one of the most prolific mural, local muralists out, him take a look at our building, and I said, all right, we got this building. And, he said, what do you want? What mural do you want? And my response was, I’m not an artist. You’re a muralist. You tell me. And what I loved is he goes, oh, thank God. I thought you’re gonna say you want money or something to do with finances on there. And my comment was, no. There, there’s a local art scene downtown. There’s murals. We want to, we want this building to be a piece of art, not a billboard,

Josh: Super cool. Yeah.

Shane: And he, man, he lit up. He’s [01:08:00] okay, yeah, let’s do this. And, and he partnered with another muralist and, created what we created, which is I just love it. It’s one of the coolest things I’ve ever done in my career. It’s like a piece of public art that we gave to our community. We took this eyesore of a building and it’s a gift and it’s part the scene

Josh: Yeah.

Shane: And that’s, I think that’s just so important. So to your point, like we, we couldn’t just, go to New York City and we shouldn’t we are a different flavor and growth is important and all of that, but we can grow in our community. We got plenty of runway. And I think the secret to our growth is to, to just be authentic.

Josh: Yeah.

Shane: And to be part of it. 

Josh: Oh, I tell you what, man, I mean from an outsider’s perspective in you guys eat, sleep and breathe that, and I love it. I appreciate it, and I think it’s really exciting to see that [01:09:00] happening and to see what you’re doing with it.

Shane: Man I really appreciate those comments and come down anytime.

Josh: I’m down. Let’s do it.

Shane: Yeah.

And, I’ll take you on a mural tour.

Josh: I wanna ride in the, the VW Buzz

Shane: for sure.

Josh: yeah.

Shane: must.

Josh: Oh man. Shane, honestly, this is, this has been a long time coming. Like I said, I, my, my big apology is that I haven’t had to go on sooner, and thank you so much for taking time outta your day to come and kind talk us through just, how One Credit Union is trying to think a little bit differently.

And I really do, I highly encourage you to follow Mocse , see what they’re doing in the community, see how they’re doing stuff in social media. It’s really refreshing and I will say it’s really authentic to who you guys are and I love it.

Shane: Man I really appreciate those words and it looks like, the kids and the family were getting ready for dinner, so I’m

Josh: I know they’re running around. Yeah. Hey, before I let you [01:10:00] go, I have two final questions for you, sir. So the first is just. Where do you go to get information about what’s happening in the industry? Do you have any, blogs that you follow or pubs that you follow, or things that you’d recommend?

Shane: I, so not necessarily in the industry, but there’s a podcast I am, addicted to and a lot of folks in the tech world, and I’m sure you’re aware of this podcast, acquired

Josh: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yep.

Shane: So love listening to that. I there, there definitely isn’t one source. I consume all the usual credit union stuff, I read it’s funny, what I do now is read articles and listen to books.

So I read I have no idea how many articles a day I read, but a

And listen to books and it’s highly varied. But I do, there’s a [01:11:00] couple. I don’t know. I have a weird eclectic reading taste. One of them, funny enough, is in, physics. I really

Josh: Oh, cool.

Shane: about physics, and one of the things odd, I would’ve never predicted this five years ago when I started reading about particle physics, I read about it, now you look at where we’re at now in the evolution of technology. Not that I can build one, or I understand it to a level, but I’m definitely tuned in with things like quantum computing,

Josh: Yeah.

Shane: And at least understand the general concepts, the power, and where we’re going with that. I don’t know. I like, like I said I think, what I’d recommend is consuming a lot of different information, particularly things outside of your expertise that’s where the creative sparks come and that’s where [01:12:00] you, where you, we stop breathing our own exhaust, get out of our bubble and see the much bigger world.

So not one thing acquired is really cool just ’cause it talks about. histories journeys and strategy. And great listening while I’m wandering around on the farm out there.

Josh: That’s super cool. I love that. The last, but not least, if people want to connect with you or if they wanna see and learn more about what Mocse is doing, how can they do that?

Shane: Oh man, that’s, LinkedIn is always good. think you can look up Shane Saunders and you’ll find it. I’m one of ’em, 

Josh: look for the baby cow.

Shane: Yeah. With a baby cow. my email address is, first letter s like Sam or Shane, S-S-A-U-N-D-E-R-S at M-O-C-S-E. Org, so [01:13:00] sSaunders@moxy.org, on Facebook and Instagram and all that

Josh: All the things.

Shane: Yeah, all the things. And so love connecting with people. Just love, love, love it. I learned so much from ’em and learned a ton from you just talking to

Josh: Appreciate that. I have to say, since Shane gave out his email vendor friends, if you’re listening, I love you to death, but if you send Shane a cold sales email because you got his email from my podcast, I will find you. No, seriously, Shane, this is honestly, man, this is how I like to spend my Friday afternoon.

Like I couldn’t have asked for a better way to just like cap the week with a reminder that there’s some really cool people doing some really cool stuff out there. And it’s really fun to hear what they’re doing and hear their perspectives on it. So Shane, thank you so much for coming and being a guest on the Digital Banking Podcast with me.

Shane: man I really appreciate it and, right back at you. This is the, mutual admiration [01:14:00] society because I, I really appreciate you and when we talked at it, GAC, a couple months ago, I, yeah, we were just vibing, like right there, just standing in the middle of a really busy restaurant.

But, it’s been really good to, to start to get to know you hopefully we can, I can get to know you even better

Josh: Yeah, we’ll have to make this a recurring thing for sure. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you sir. Again, appreciate it.