[00:00:00] Jenn Addabbo: One of the pieces of feedback that I gave some of the kids at, the entrepreneur program at JMU. I said, it's hard, but you have to fill in your blind spots and you read about this in here, but um, this is not something new. Right? But you have to find people that you're like puzzle pieces that come together for the full picture.

[00:00:15] And that was something that took me a while to figure out. And the people side of what any business is, is the most difficult part, difficult part about the business The Digital Banking Podcast is powered by Tyfone.

[00:00:31] Tyfone is the creator of Infiniti, a ally better digital banking platform for community financial institutions, as well as several platform agnostic revenue generating point solutions. Our highly configurable platform and broad ecosystem of third party partners ensure our entire suite is scalable and extensible to meet the needs of any FI.

[00:00:52] On our podcast, you will hear host Josh DeTar, discuss today's most pressing financial technology topics with seasoned industry experts from every possible discipline. 

[00:01:12] 

[00:02:11] Josh DeTar: Welcome to another episode of the Digital Banking Podcast.

[00:02:15] Josh: My guest today is Jenn Addabbo, the CEO and co-founder of Engage fi. Fearless. One word that sums up much of Jen's personality and is exemplified by the way she runs her life and her business. Now, that's a pretty big word, and to be fair, pretty broad term, so let's expand on it a little. Does this mean she's going skydiving every weekend? No. In fact, she said she's never been. But how's this for fearless with two young boys at home and an entrepreneurial husband, Jen started her business the same day her husband did. Now, this wasn't always the plan for Jen while in college getting her marketing degree, her dad said, you need to have a job by the time you graduate.

[00:03:04] Josh: Essentially, you're off the payroll now. Her dad at the time worked at FIS. And it was the only company she really knew. So she applied for a marketing position there, and after years of working in a variety of roles as a vendor in the community fi space, Jen's passion for helping and motivating her passion for the FI she was serving and her passion for doing things different drove her to the fearless decision to start something from scratch. Her fearlessness also comes in alongside a determined competitive nature. Now, not so much a desire to compete with others, but a deep desire to be a better version of herself, as evidenced by her multi-sport athletics in high school and college, as well as in her own personal health and fitness commitments.

[00:03:54] Josh: Today. I also have to just say this, when I think of the word fearless. To me, nothing says fearless like the fierceness of a mom who says her kids' happiness and success is her utmost priority in life. Now you couple mom power with a competitive entrepreneur who's willing to be bold and do tough things that friends is a superpower. Jen, welcome to the show.

[00:04:23] Jenn: Thanks, Josh. I'm excited to be here. 

[00:04:25] Josh: Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. You know, so I gotta say though, when I say like, mom power and superpower, I feel like this is the start to a comic book.

[00:04:35] Josh: So I almost feel like since we're saying, you know, the comic book terms, we also need to use like your origin story. Like we need the comic book.

[00:04:43] Josh: That's your origin story.

[00:04:44] Josh: And I think it's actually. 

[00:04:46] Jenn: quite funny to be honest with you.

[00:04:49] Josh: Well, I think it's kind of funny too. I don't know if you realize this. I mean, you probably do 'cause it's, you know, your office, but I

[00:04:54] Josh: forget what's behind me. But you know, as you were telling me about yourself and I was crafting this introduction to you, the sign behind you says she believed she could. So she did.

[00:05:05] Josh: And I

[00:05:05] Josh: think that is such an awesome testament to exactly that, your kind of origin story. So would you mind kind of starting there and just telling us a little bit about what brought you to the point we're at today?

[00:05:18] Jenn: Yeah, I love that sign. I've had it in my office for, for as long as I can remember. 'cause I think it's important even for myself, I have to remind myself of, of, you know, kind of where we've come. Yeah, I mean, you, you referenced it in the intro. I, uh, went to college in, at James Madison University and, originally thought I was gonna be a news broadcaster and this is the closest thing that I will get to in news broadcasting.

[00:05:43] Jenn: I realized very quickly that was probably not, not it for me, but, yeah, started in marketing at FIS, supporting their trade shows and. Had somebody come by my cubicle one day and say, you should be in sales. And my response was absolutely not. People hate sales people. I was like, I don't wanna be somebody that somebody doesn't like.

[00:05:59] Jenn: Nobody wants to get a call from a salesperson. Nobody wants to be seen as a salesperson. And I said no a bunch of times before. I finally took a chance and I was selling check warranty services to pawn shops and car dealerships. I would go on car dealer lots and pretend I was buying a car for the only reason to go get into the office of the CFO.

[00:06:18] Jenn: And, and I'd say, I'm not really here to buy a car, but I could sell you some check warranty services. And, it worked more often than not. So it helped pay the bills. But yeah, just evolved quickly and realized I didn't wanna be in a, check dying industry. And I moved into digital banking within the FIS ecosystem and went from FIS over to PSCU now, Valera, and ended up running, that was my first expo.

[00:06:41] Jenn: Real exposure to credit unions. So. Working on more of the bank side at FIS and, really fell in love with that community, financial institution space during that time. And, yeah, so went from there and ran all of the credit union relationships over at, at PSU Valera before starting, this company in 2014.

[00:06:59] Jenn: So here we are 11 years later and I feel like we, we've evolved even in the time since starting. So that entrepreneurial spirit is still alive and well.

[00:07:09] Josh: Well, I think, so there's a couple of things that I really want to spend some time talking to you about today. One, I always say this, anytime I get, you know, founders and CEOs on the podcast, I actually do. I find it just personally like very fascinating to hear. Why did you step out on the ledge? Like, why did you start this thing? Being an entrepreneur is not, you know, for the faint of heart. But I want to come back to, a couple of things that you said throughout there as well. So, you know, maybe for starters, just talk to me a little bit about that. Like, taking that first leap of starting something new.

[00:07:43] Josh: Like what was that like for you?

[00:07:45] Jenn: Yeah. You know what's interesting? I'm jealous of kids now that are in college that, get to participate in an entrepreneurial program. Right. We have one here at the University of Tampa that's phenomenal. And I'm talking to a lot of friends and, hearing their kids actually being interested in learning about entrepreneurship.

[00:08:00] Jenn: It's, not something that was prevalent, you know? 25 years ago. So, or at least that I had any exposure to. So I wasn't intending to do this. It wasn't like a dream I had, I, you know, I just felt like it, there was a time for disruption and, you referenced it earlier, you know, I'm competitive within myself.

[00:08:19] Jenn: I had a lot of support from my co-founder, James Guild. He and I stepped out together and started this thing and we were honestly just tired of being, it, it was a lot of things, tired of being a vendor and sort of beholden to, you can only provide support based on what you, your company provided. And, you know, I, I think there were, we were on the other side of the table from cons from some consulting firms that hadn't really changed over the years.

[00:08:46] Jenn: And I felt like, let's go out and, do it differently. Let's think about a way to disrupt the industry and. And technology and data are gonna make consultants even more powerful and, provide insights. And so how can we get out there and do it? It was easier to have a co-founder. I don't know that I would've had the guts to do it on my own.

[00:09:06] Jenn: So that support was really helpful. And then of course, you know, the support of my husband and, other, clients that have been longtime clients that supported us from day one. They even said, I don't know what you're doing, but whatever you're gonna do, we're here to support you. So that gives you a little bit of a soft cushion to land on.

[00:09:21] Josh: Well, I have to imagine too, like it gives you a little bit of confidence in like, okay, that then I'm doing the right thing, right? Like if,

[00:09:27] Josh: people are saying, Hey, I'm, I'm behind you on this.

[00:09:32] Jenn: Yeah. I think it, those first few times where you don't take a paycheck, terrifying. You're like, when, when, like, I kind of took for granted that that benefits and the, and the paycheck until you, it doesn't show up in your account. Now it, you just have to, when there's nowhere to.

[00:09:46] Jenn: To go, you just go, you gotta figure it out. And, relationships have always been, something that I, I hold dear, and, and I think you, you tap into those relationships to, to build a foundation. But that's why even when I talked to college, I was lucky enough to go back to JMU to speak to their entrepreneur program specifically in tech.

[00:10:04] Jenn: And just talking to those kids and giving them, you know, sort of advice was, was really great for me. It was kind of a full circle moment of at least, you know, you wanna go out and take the, the crazy chance. I had no idea I was gonna do that.

[00:10:19] Josh: Um, I have to say though, as excited as I am to talk to you about what you do, I kind of wish, like you were telling me what your husband's business was when you started.

[00:10:28] Josh: That sounds more fun. 

[00:10:30] Jenn: It was more fun. He opened a indoor bounce house for kids. Strictly was tired of driving the kids to these birthday parties that were all over town. He said, there's gotta be something we can do here. And he. He is more of a serial entrepreneur. Um, so I watched him start a couple businesses, but the bounce house business was, it was awesome too, with two small ones that could go with him to work, was huge.

[00:10:51] Jenn: Yeah. 

[00:10:53] Josh: I know. I tell you what, like I can't tell you how many times, as you know, a new-ish parent with young kids,

[00:10:59] Josh: I've had that like, oh my gosh, like, why don't I start a freaking bounce house business? It is crazy what you spend to rent these things or

[00:11:07] Josh: go to these places. And so for my son's, what was, I think it was for his, uh, his third birthday last year, we just bought him a bounce house.

[00:11:16] Josh: It was

[00:11:16] Josh: like 300 bucks on Amazon.

[00:11:18] Josh: I was like, I can't even rent one for that.

[00:11:20] Jenn: Well, the one year it was perfect because it, it rain. I'm in Florida, and so it rains the entire summer and they, you know, they need somewhere to go. And so it was, it's brilliant. It was an indoor, facility that, it was really, it was great. It was terrifying for both of us to be starting a business at the same time.

[00:11:35] Jenn: But we did it.

[00:11:36] Josh: Yeah, I, I mean, yeah, like I was telling you earlier, like, I, I love being somebody else's number two.

[00:11:43] Josh: I just, I mean, I have so much respect for you stepping out on that. And you know, you were even kind of referencing too, like at the time that you did that is in a really male, heavy dominated industry. And

[00:11:57] Jenn: Right.

[00:11:58] Josh: I mean, you went like, you didn't just tackle one hill, you tackled like three or four at the same time.

[00:12:03] Jenn: Yeah. And it's, you know, we still be very, we still are, predominantly female here. So I think that that kind of bleeds through in, in a little bit of our, values and culture. I think, you know, it's funny that you mentioned, the support that you provide. I am a big believer in, this framework that we operate here called EOS, and it's the entrepreneurial operating system.

[00:12:24] Jenn: And it's a book I read. And as a typical kind of CEO visionary, I see your kids in the background, so. They're just saying Hi, 

[00:12:32] Josh: Yeah, I know you saw Jack come up and he's like, Hey.

[00:12:35] Jenn: Yeah, I can appreciate it. I shoulda have waved to him. We operate off this, this framework and what's so important for businesses, and I talk to a lot of credit union and bank CEOs about this, is that, to grow a business and to have that entrepreneurial spirit doesn't mean you have to be a startup.

[00:12:49] Jenn: It doesn't mean you have to go create your own entity. You can have that entrepreneurial spirit within a large organization and a legacy organization. You just start small. And it's interesting, you know, the ability for somebody to take a visionary's ideas, and this is how I am now with my partner Andre Santes.

[00:13:08] Jenn: Thank God for him. He's the integrator. So, you know, we brainstorm a lot and we have, I have wild ideas and sometimes those get a, you know, let's put a pin in those for now, and it might be six months, or it might be never that those ideas come to fruition. But having somebody who can then. Truly execute on a vision and, and implement it out throughout the organization has been really impactful to us.

[00:13:32] Jenn: And it's something that I, I shout from the rooftops to all of our clients 'cause it's just been so beneficial for our company as we've grown from two people to now 80 people. Yeah,

[00:13:41] Josh: So I want to come back and learn a little bit more about that system and how you talk about applying that at credit unions. But, you know, I, I wanna go even further back 'cause you touched on this earlier too, and then again is the culture side of things though. And especially as you know, this is regardless of whether you are, engage fi or whether you're a, b, c credit union or whether you're, 1, 2, 3, FinTech culture matters

[00:14:11] Josh: and a lot of times, you know, the culture I. Is really whatever the founding team brings to the table and what you create. And you know, one of the things, our CEO SBA talks about all the time is, you know, finding founders' passion

[00:14:27] Josh: and finding people to grow within your organization that have the same level of passion as the founders. One can be difficult,

[00:14:34] Josh: but two, something that you were talking about that's a, a big part of kind of your almost personal culture it seems like is how do you even as the founder, keep founder's passion as the company grows.

[00:14:47] Josh: So, what does that look like in terms of the culture element for you?

[00:14:51] Jenn: I think it's, something that, honestly, early on I took for granted. So sometimes you, when you're a small company and you're hiring people, you probably are gonna lean toward, I'm gonna hire somebody that I know, or somebody that's just like me. Because it's easier to like relate to people that are just like you.

[00:15:08] Jenn: But it is one of the pieces of feedback that I gave some of the kids at, the entrepreneur program at JMU. I said, it's hard, but you have to fill in your blind spots and you read about this in here, but this is not something new. Right? But you have to find people that you're like puzzle pieces that come together for the full picture.

[00:15:25] Jenn: And that was something that took me a while to figure out. And the people side of what any business is, is the most difficult part, difficult part about the business we have created organically. It's almost like I don't wanna talk about it because it's so precious. It's like this culture of, being there for one another no matter what.

[00:15:47] Jenn: And we're a pretty fully remote, remote workforce. We have been for a long, long time. And the culture is so protected that we are. Very deliberate in who we hire and, and who stays on board. And, it becomes very clear because we're so transparent in our values that you either are in or you're out. And that has taken a while to figure out.

[00:16:12] Jenn: I think sometimes when companies are trying to grow, you're trying to fill a spot, you have an idea of a position, and you, you can be desperate in putting people in just to fill the void. And we, we've learned from that. It's too, disruptive to do it that way versus being very deliberate about how you hire people, how you coach people, the teams that you put together that are cross-functional.

[00:16:35] Jenn: It's a major part of who we are. And it's, it's not just lip service. It's something that we, we talk to our teams about constantly. It's how our reviews are all, situated. So it's it, we live and die by that, honestly.

[00:16:48] Josh: I'm glad you brought that up. I think that's a, a similar lesson like life lesson that I had to go through because I remember kind of my early days of being in a management position and in a hiring position. And Yeah, you know, even though I think you probably have heard from others and mentors and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, the, you know, you need diversity within your team.

[00:17:12] Josh: You do. Sometimes you fall into that trap of, I kind of just actually want somebody that's gonna think like me so I don't have to argue with them, or they're just gonna say yes to whatever I say. And that seems like the easy decision. And it actually does work pretty well for a

[00:17:29] Josh: short period of time. But then to your point, like the blind spots get missed.

[00:17:35] Josh: And I think that's where your innovation really starts to die.

[00:17:40] Josh: And I think that's where, you know, when we talk about diversity like that, is the importance of it. Like you need people that are gonna think and act differently to you and provide unique ideas and perspectives, and then create a culture that allows that to be kind of fiercely collaborative.

[00:17:59] Josh: And that's really where you're going to like breed innovation and movement. But

[00:18:05] Josh: it is, it's like even though, you know what it's hard to do.

[00:18:07] Jenn: Well, and I think something that you said is interesting is create the culture. I, I struggle with that because I don't think you can create the culture. I think the culture is, is a result of your vision, your actions, your tone, your collaboration, your transparency, like that, the culture is the result.

[00:18:27] Jenn: I think sometimes people force themselves to create a culture that's innovative and. You can talk the talk all day long, but if you're not executing on it and you're not, and people aren't getting that feel from you when they interact with you, then it's not truly culture. It's fake.

[00:18:42] Josh: So I, I, uh, I love using the example of, and if you look back on my history far enough, you know, I can say I, I was at one of those places, not in this industry actually, but, where it was, it was just, you know, the culture was very created

[00:18:56] Josh: and the culture was like, we literally had, like, I think at the time when I got hired, we had a page on the website that was like our culture and it was that, and it was an in-office culture and it was like, we have ping pongs in the break or ping pong tables in the

[00:19:11] Josh: break room and kombucha on tap and like all of this stuff. And what I quickly came to realize was that that was just BS fluff and stuff, culture. It didn't actually tell me anything about the culture of the organization and how the people actually work together. And I agree like that. It just kind of creates itself and you, you shape it and mold it and you foster it from the foundation. But it becomes its own organic living thing.

[00:19:42] Jenn: Yeah, and I think for us it's, you know, being fully remote, you know, obviously we're all adopting teams and have for a long, long time and, and there's a lot of noise in teams and there's a lot of. It's hard to keep up with everything with the 400 channels that you probably have, but our ability to share ideas, support one another in good times and bad times.

[00:20:03] Jenn: We've had births of babies, we've had cancer diagnoses that have come through, but, you know, with, with tremendous results we've had, how's burning down? We've had, just general, Hey, I, I need some support and, and does anybody have any ideas about how I could, how I could get better at X, Y, or Z?

[00:20:21] Jenn: That's been awesome to watch really from the sidelines and watch the team interact with each other. And, I think the more you observe that, the more it becomes innate in who you are and who you wanna be to show up for your colleagues every day, which, has been, has proven out for us anyway.

[00:20:38] Josh: You know, I'm curious to get your, your take on this. I've, I've developed a couple of hot takes for me personally over the last handful of years. And the first is that, there's no such thing as personal and professional life anymore.

[00:20:53] Josh: There's just life.

[00:20:54] Josh: You know what, and I used to be super weird about like trying to have this like, you know, iron Curtain up between the two.

[00:21:02] Josh: And just like you're saying, you're like, Jack just came and, you know,

[00:21:05] Josh: put, popped his head up on the window and it's like, Hey, you know what? Here's the deal. I work from home.

[00:21:10] Josh: It is what it is. And you know what? I could be on a demo for Navy Fed. And if my, you know, she does, she loves to. If my one and a half year old daughter, Annie comes and bursts through my office doors and she's the, like, I, I sidetrack. I totally thought Jen, when I got a daughter, I was like, oh, I'm gonna get the, like cuddly, like always once Affection

[00:21:32] Josh: gives it. No, no. Mm-hmm. Like getting a hug outta Annie is like, so if

[00:21:37] Josh: she comes and bursts, yeah. She's gonna be fearless. She is. But if she bursts through my office and she wants a hug, I'm like, Hey, this may be the one and only hug I get all

[00:21:45] Josh: day.

[00:21:45] Josh: I was like, I, I don't care who's on the other line. I'm taking that hug,

[00:21:49] Jenn: I think what's cool about it though is they get to see you work like that. That was something that was foreign, at least when I was growing up. My dad, I knew my dad was in technology. Periodically I'd get to go to the data centers and, and tour the data centers and see the big computers and you know, certainly dating myself.

[00:22:06] Jenn: But, that was all I saw. Right? So the idea of work, and I, I love the fact that my kids see and hear me having conversations when I work from home. They can overhear the conversation. It's really kind of, I think it's cool. I think it gives them a, a better idea as to kind of what you do.

[00:22:21] Jenn: Obviously it can be distracting sometimes when you're trying to get work done, but Yeah, it's work life integration. And, you know, you and I were talking earlier about the gym and, and being such a non-negotiable of. What's important is prioritizing certain things, right? And, and I referenced the fact that I respect the calendar.

[00:22:41] Jenn: When somebody puts, puts time on my calendar for a meeting, I don't move it as often as I can, you know, not why do I tend to delete, oh, gym time. Oh, I'm just gonna delete that. So I was finding, um, like, oh, I don't have time to go to the gym. I can't, I, you know, by the time I get home it's too late, or, I'm certainly not a, unfortunately, unlike a lot of entrepreneurs, I'm not a five amr.

[00:23:02] Jenn: Um, and so I have to figure out where it fits in. And now I've, I've really over the past couple years have focused on making that a priority, just like I would anybody who sets a meeting with me, right? I'm kind, I'm setting a meeting with myself, 

[00:23:14] Josh: Yeah. Setting a meeting with yourself, I like that.

[00:23:17] Jenn: yeah.

[00:23:18] Josh: Yeah. And I think too, it's same, you know, I like, it's cool to have the opportunity to have your kids see that in action. I mean, we have a home gym,

[00:23:28] Josh: and same thing, like my wife is the same way. She's like, Hey, I, I'm gonna try and work out like maybe when Annie's napping or before

[00:23:36] Josh: the kids wake up or something like that.

[00:23:37] Josh: But she's like, but if they're up, like, Hey, this is mom's time. Like

[00:23:41] Josh: mom is gonna work out. We're gonna get that in. And then they see that

[00:23:44] Josh: discipline in her. They see that like, you know, her, her taking time for herself mentally and physically is important.

[00:23:52] Jenn: Definitely. 

[00:23:53] Josh: So what I'm curious on is, so like that's kind of one of my hot takes that I've taken on recently. I think conversely, it's your family becoming a part of work and seeing work and all of that. But I think too, it's the interesting side of work, becoming family and, I saw this LinkedIn post a while ago, Jen. I have it saved and it's one of those like, I, I really wanna respond to it, but I really want to put some time and thought into the response.

[00:24:26] Josh: And I've been kind of crafting my response around this. And essentially it was, when a company says, you know, our culture is like family run, it's bs. Like that's them creating fake culture to say, oh, we're like family around here. And, you know, you don't want to create a culture of family. You want to create a, you know, a culture of winners and you have to be super competitive and all of this stuff.

[00:24:52] Josh: And, and I, I started thinking about it and I was like, but those are the same things I want for my family.

[00:24:57] Josh: I want my family to be loyal, but not just because they're blood. I want them to be loyal because I earn it and that I've worked to get their trust and their respect, and that I demonstrate those things and I hold them accountable.

[00:25:13] Josh: right.

[00:25:14] Josh: Like, and I'm gonna do the same thing with my employees and I would hope that my employer would do the same thing for me. But at the same time, like you do create this genuine family-like bond.

[00:25:25] Josh: I mean, I have people that, you know, work in our India office that Jen I have never met, but I would take a bullet for. They're family to me.

[00:25:35] Josh: Like I genuinely believe that in my soul, that

[00:25:37] Josh: they're family to me, because we have built that kind of relationship over a decade.

[00:25:41] Josh: And so to say like, oh, if a company says, you know, they have a family culture like run, I'm like, ah,

[00:25:48] Josh: see, I just, I 

[00:25:49] Jenn: can feel, yeah, I think that you can feel, it's interesting as we think about like how technology is going to evolve, especially in a company like ours where we're so service oriented, right? We're not selling a widget or a product, we're. We're our people are our biggest asset.

[00:26:06] Jenn: Right? That's what, that's what banks and credit unions are relying on, is our expertise and our guidance and our ability to, to help them. And so I think you can kind of sniff out culture that is fake versus, you know, wow, when this person shows up on a call or you see 'em at a conference or they're in a meeting, it's consistent.

[00:26:24] Jenn: Whether you see somebody who's been with the company two years or somebody who's founded the company, right? It's, there's a continuity in that. And that's, culture. That's not, I have our values on my, my mouse pad, right? But it's, it's more than just the words. It's, it's really that you're living by that.

[00:26:41] Jenn: And, it will be evident as sort of the evolution of technology and how services companies leverage technology. You know, that balance of, where we might be going with ai. That importance of the people aspect is gonna become even more evident. I think that's really, we're gonna separate the cream from the crop.

[00:27:00] Josh: Okay. That's kind of a hard pivot, but now you, you pique my interest. So, yeah.

[00:27:04] Josh: So how do you think, as technology evolves. How do you think that's gonna have an impact on companies cultures, and how do you think that's gonna have an impact on like the importance of the culture as kind of a differentiator?

[00:27:17] Jenn: Really think, it's funny, our CTO literally this morning posted we, we were having an interesting back and forth on the leadership team, and he said. You know that the Chick-fil-A model, right? That service oriented, there's plenty of fast food places that you can choose from. Chick-fil-A has a balance of technology and efficiency, right?

[00:27:37] Jenn: And they're, they were probably one of the first, and, and I would, I would argue one of the best at the curbside pickup process, the order ahead. And they balance that with their service, with a smile. Their my pleasure response, their willingness to go above and beyond. I witnessed it, you know, my kids, I feel like have Chick-fil-A every day in the summer.

[00:27:56] Jenn: But I witnessed it the other day. After a lacrosse tournament, somebody was upset. Immediately. The manager came over, had some free gift cards for sandwiches. I'm so sorry, this took a little bit longer than you expected. There was no back and forth, right? There was just, Hey, we see that you're concerned.

[00:28:10] Jenn: Here's, I'm gonna be proactive in, in responding to you. And so. Obviously much broader, more, a lot more important, business that we're dealing with on a day-to-day basis. But I think balancing that use of technology to make you better, more efficient, give you access to more information. If you skew too far from your values on the service side and you rely too much on technology, it's gonna be clear.

[00:28:35] Jenn: So there's a balance and we're working on what does that look like for us in the next five years. As, AI becomes more prevalent in the day-to-day use, and our clients are utilizing ai, how do we make sure that you can never really automate expertise? Right? We, the bumps and bruises that we've all learned, whether personally or professionally, are embedded in our DNA and so we don't wanna make those same mistakes again.

[00:28:55] Jenn: And, that's a key component of, of how we look at it. It's, it's making sure that our team has the tools they need to thrive, but that they can focus on the service aspect of how they help their clients.

[00:29:07] Josh: I'd love to get your thoughts on, I, we give you two questions in one, in what that looks like for your own company and then what you think that looks like for, you know, the credit unions and the community banks that we serve. But before you do, you know, it's funny, you were, you made this comment and I I wanted to wait till now to make the statement, but I peel back the, wizard of Oz curtain a little bit, you know, how I work with our guests, as before we hit record. You know, I talk to them, I get to know them, especially if I don't know them at all a little bit. And then I worked craft an introduction to that guest. And I actually take, you know, a lot of like self pride in making sure to get that right to highlight our guest because you are the most important person on this show, not me. And I really wanna set people up to be excited to come and listen to the things that you have to say. And you made the joke like, Hey, you know, chat GPT could have just like transcribed this and spit it out. And I was like, absolutely. But that's one of those areas where I feel like, would it make me slightly more efficient?

[00:30:12] Josh: Yes. Could it possibly have written exactly what I wrote? Yes. But there was almost a, I wanted to show you personally that I cared

[00:30:25] Josh: and that I took the time to listen and that I took the time to think about wanting to represent you appropriately. And I'd like to think. That, that's kind of how you're describing thinking about how you run your business and how financial institutions should be thinking about it, is like there's a lot that you can do to optimize efficiency, that you can optimize intelligence and

[00:30:49] Josh: insights through by using things like ai.

[00:30:52] Josh: But where are the times and the places where you need to demonstrate that, like you are showing up as a person. And so, yeah. So what does that look like for your own company? And then what are some of your recommendations for our CFIs?

[00:31:06] Jenn: First, I will say I appreciate the, the effort that you put into it. 'cause it is, there's a component of, hey, I, I respect you enough to take the time to put this into my own words. And it really comes across as being more personal. So tongue in cheek joke on that. But also, I do fear a little bit 'cause that's a creative outlet for you, right?

[00:31:25] Jenn: You get to sort of hear in the 15 or 20 minutes that we were talking of, you know how you're gonna frame that up that allows you to then be creative. I do worry that we get to a point, gosh, much like what we've seen with ways and GPS, right? If I had to get in a car and drive somewhere and not use Waze and try to use my own, I, I.

[00:31:45] Josh: I'd be toast.

[00:31:46] Jenn: Yeah. And I feel like on the one hand that really concerns me because I need, I feel this need to be able to prove to myself I could do it. But on the other hand, it's so easy. So I mean, I remember the days that you had to print out the MapQuest, you know, turn by turn and try to drive and read and it was pitch black.

[00:32:02] Jenn: So, I think there's obviously some concerns around it, but we have started to really see efficiencies. And for us that's time is so precious for us. We're working with so many clients on so many projects and, it's important for us that we manage our teams time appropriately. And so where we're looking at it is how can we help them be more efficient?

[00:32:26] Jenn: So simple things like, you know, everybody is implementing now sort of the fireflies ai, right? For note taking and, and meeting summaries so that a consultant and a program manager don't have to spend their time. Retyping notes from a meeting. It's just, you know, editing and making sure that the client has the updates they need.

[00:32:44] Jenn: We're using scribe AI to test out, training for various applications. So when we hire someone, it's kind of a joke here. We, we usually bring somebody on and we've got five projects already teed up for them. So that the learning curve, has to be really short. And so we're implementing ideas around training, training for that.

[00:33:04] Jenn: And then just, you know, some best practices around data and insights. We, we are, as a consulting company, have a massive amount of data that, and just input and knowledge that, that our clients can leverage and that we can leverage to help our clients make smarter decisions. So that's, it's definitely a balance, it's a tool for efficiency internally, layered with subject matter expertise.

[00:33:25] Jenn: And that's the very same message we're telling our clients. So we are expanding into AI consulting. This year, later this year, and, and helping our clients really hone in on a strategy, I'd say the early adopters and use cases that we've seen, because I think people think that it's, it's bigger than it needs to be.

[00:33:44] Jenn: And, you've heard everything from AI as artificial intelligence to automation intelligence, automation improvement, right? You can kind of make AI be defined however you want. We're seeing it mostly within the LMS, you know, learning systems, training and call center, which is perfect, right?

[00:34:02] Jenn: So if you can make, especially if you've got turnover in that space or you have a, you're going through a conversion and you need to bring on new employees to support that conversion, getting them up to speed as quickly as possible is a great way to, to implement AI as a strategy. But again, still focused on internal and then layering in that that service angle that the member, service representative or the CSR is gonna still deliver messages out to the customers and members.

[00:34:29] Josh: Yeah. Yeah. I, so I want to give you a, maybe a scenario and, get your thoughts on, for like a community financial institution. Yeah. It's, being able to, take, you know, decades and decades of knowledge and information about, how you serve your customers, what products you offer, how you would answer this question. But like you were saying, there's kind of that it has to be coupled with the culture of the organization and the Chick-fil-A example.

[00:35:01] Josh: Right? And it's like that Chick-fil-A manager was able to just see that there was a problem and they were given the authority because the company has put the right, you know, culture and structure in place and has the technology to be able to understand and manage how much is this manager giving out and how

[00:35:19] Josh: often and why and all of these things. But it made the process just so simple. I mean, if you think about it from a credit union's perspective, yeah, you've got a new, you know, person on the teller line and they can much quicker get spun up on and have, you know. For all intents and purposes as much data information as a teller that's been on the teller line for 20 years, right next

[00:35:43] Josh: to them. But then they're able to bring, you know, the cultural and empathetic side of things where, you know, a member walks in and you can see they've got, you know, swollen, puffy eyes and you can ask like, what's going on? You're like, oh, well I was up

[00:35:56] Josh: all night because I had a sick kid, and we just got hit with a bunch of medical bills that we weren't expecting.

[00:36:01] Josh: And that can prompt a whole different conversation that I would argue, you know, your AI is never gonna replace.

[00:36:07] Jenn: right, right. Yeah, I don't disagree. I think it's, I. Figuring out how to balance it. You can't ignore it, right? You can't say, oh, we're gonna be overregulated with it, or it's never gonna push through. I think, like any innovation, I would highlight, and this is a lot of what we're doing, even with some of our strategic planning, is you can still encapsulate this idea of, entrepreneurship or small business strategies or, you know, we always used to say like, okay, if we started over tomorrow, how would we build this?

[00:36:38] Jenn: If we, and I, I feel like banks and credit unions should be thinking more that way. Instead, often they think, yeah, we've been doing it this way for 30 years. Could it be better? Yes. But we don't have the budget, we don't have the resources. The technology we're on isn't appropriate. Instead, they should be thinking, if we were gonna do this, if we're gonna build a new bank or credit union tomorrow.

[00:36:58] Jenn: How would we do it? And start to carve out, you know, some key areas that maybe could be implemented within this, you know, long standing legacy that they have. 'cause there's something to be said for that, right? The, the community bank or credit union that's been around for 50 years is entrenched within their communities and it's an a really important part of the community fi space.

[00:37:17] Jenn: But I do think we could do a better job as an industry of innovating within legacy,

[00:37:23] Josh: Yeah, I think that's a good way of thinking of it. Like if I were to just, if I were to start my own company again today,

[00:37:30] Josh: what would I do the same? Or what would I do different?

[00:37:33] Josh: And Yeah.

[00:37:34] Josh: I mean, you're right. Like AI is here. So if you were to start something brand new, including a credit union or a bank, a part of that strategy would be how would we leverage these tools? You know, I saw a, uh, a post, this morning actually that was saying that they believe that, the person who will start the first billion dollar company with one employee is living today.

[00:38:05] Josh: And it's because it'll be powered by ai

[00:38:08] Jenn: right.

[00:38:08] Josh: and there'll be one single employee of this company. That's a billion dollar company.

[00:38:13] Jenn: We'll just have to see how their service model is.

[00:38:15] Josh: Yeah, exactly. I'm like, but you know, who knows what that looks like? And I'm like, I

[00:38:20] Josh: don't. You know? So, so the tool is there. So how would you think about building a credit union or a bank that would be super, super efficient using those tools? And then the question becomes, where would you double down on the human power?

[00:38:33] Josh: And I think that's what you were referencing, right?

[00:38:35] Jenn: Yeah. And how do you, how do you not get distracted by it? Right. That's the, the challenge with any innovation is it can be easily distracting and you can kind of go down a rabbit hole of what you think. You have this brilliant idea and it's gonna work. But if you're, if you're not careful, you can be completely distracted and, and avoid your core business.

[00:38:56] Jenn: So it's a balance of, you know, trying and failing quickly. Right. The whole kind of, even, even the agile rollout of technology, it's like, okay, are we on the right track? Oh, we're not on the right track this sprint. Let me, let's, let's revisit and let's pivot for the next sprint to make sure that we're on track versus the legacy technology deployment of waterfall technology plans where you didn't know you were wrong until you were wrong, and then you have to scrap it all back.

[00:39:19] Jenn: Yeah, so I think that, you know, it's, it's a back to culture, it's a culture thing and it comes from the top of the financial institutions themselves. If the CEO and I, we've seen it clear as day, if the CEO and the leadership team has a passion for innovation and improvement and, and, the customer and member experience, the whole technology stack, the, the strategy, the execution is very different than someone who has no desire to change and, and really is kind of more of that old school thought process.

[00:39:52] Josh: Well, okay. So that's an interesting point 'cause that kind of comes back to what you were talking about earlier, that I wanted to come back to anyway, which was like as, as a founder yourself, right? We were talking about just getting founders' passion within the other employees of your organization, but even just within yourself, right?

[00:40:11] Josh: You said you've been doing this for 11 years now. How do you keep the passion alive? And so when you start thinking about, the introduction of technology, like how does that even change your ability to continue to reinvent yourself over and over again and still have passion while remaining kind of true to your core beliefs?

[00:40:37] Josh: So to your point, like you think about a credit union that's like, okay, well we're just going to, you know, we're gonna do 90% of everything. With technology and with AI and all of this, what happens to that founder's passion if it's just all done by machines?

[00:40:53] Jenn: Yeah, and we kind of talked about this too prior to the hitting the record button, right? I think there's consulting firms, and you and I talked about this. I hate the word, I really don't love the word consulting. I think there's, there's, I, we, I like the word advocate. I think consulting is seen as. I said it earlier, like, oh, I'm not quite ready to retire, so I'll just go into consulting and I'll pick up some gigs.

[00:41:14] Jenn: And, so there's folks that are out there that are creating lifestyle businesses in consulting, and what we're trying to do is really massively impact our clients. I mean, our success is directly driven by our client's success. That's it. There's no, there's no other way to look at it. And so when I think about, you know, what, that still invigorates me that every time we have a client that we have helped through some challenges and have talked through all of the scenarios of how this could affect their financial institution and their members or customers, that gets me excited.

[00:41:48] Jenn: But what also is apparent to me is that our industry is going to continue to change. And that keeps that entrepreneurial spirit running in Me too, right? AI wasn't even something we talked about. Two years ago, honestly, it was, and now, you know, there's other areas we, we launched into some new service lines in the past couple of years that have really taken off that weren't part of our core, consulting services when we first started, right?

[00:42:15] Jenn: We were payments and digital and core, and now we're expanding into the integrated communications channel lines and now artificial intelligence and CRM systems. And, you know, as our clients' needs change, because the industry has changed around them, we now have another opportunity to bring on the right subject matter experts to help them.

[00:42:34] Jenn: So I would say that keeps that fire going. And then, you know, we have, one of our, one of our values is continuous improvement and we talk almost every day about 1% better every day. How do we provide more value to our clients? How do we get better at, you know, managing the work life load internally?

[00:42:54] Jenn: I was watching, you know, I'm sure we get a lot of our input from LinkedIn. I was watching something the other day about a speaker whose husband was a, a professional coach, like a MBA coach or NFL coach can't remember, and she said that what separates folks are the things that take no talent and it's effort, right?

[00:43:13] Jenn: The guy that runs off the field when his coach calls him out, I tell my kids this all the time. As soon as your coach calls you to sub out, don't, don't drop your shoulders like, oh, I'm subbed out. You run off the field as fast as you possibly can, and you show that coach that you're responsive and you're listening.

[00:43:28] Jenn: Showing up early. To put in the extra time doing the extra, the, you know, deep dive to really make sure you understand whatever that meeting is gonna be or whatever that event is gonna be, that you're doing the homework. It doesn't take talent, it just takes effort. And so that's a big piece of what we're trying to do is just 1% better every day.

[00:43:46] Jenn: And that continuous improvement loop, for the benefit of our clients, that, that drives me. That's like, oh my gosh, we said we were gonna do this. We can do it better next time. Oh, we did it, we can do it better next time. Right. And just always having that methodology, I think is, is critical.

[00:44:01] Josh: What do you think that looks like for the credit unions and community banks? Like how did they keep the passion for what started the credit union 50 years ago when, you know, leadership changes, when technology comes into play, and yeah, some of this stuff starts to get automated and done by ai. How do you keep that founder's passion alive for your credit union?

[00:44:26] Jenn: The ones that I've seen really do it well always come back to the person on the other side of the screen, the phone, the teller line, right? So your example of, you know, we're here to help that parent who is in a situation where they were not expecting medical bills or someone lost their job and now they're in a, unfortunate situation of having to provide for their family.

[00:44:47] Jenn: And it, it's, it's remembering the person that you're trying to serve, that individual person and the impact that you can have. I think sometimes that can be forgotten. And the ones that, that, the clients of ours that I've worked with, even folks that I've worked with my entire career, when they continue to remind themselves about that, that's really.

[00:45:07] Jenn: That, that really is where they thrive is in, in the why behind it. Technology's gonna be there and technology's gonna be, there's a lot of great benefits to technology. But at the end of the day, you're, deploying that technology for the benefit of the end consumer that's the recipient, whether it's a positive or a negative, right.

[00:45:26] Jenn: College I need funding for college or, you know, buying my first house. All those things still happen and they're gonna continue to happen and they're, they need to go to a trusted source for that. And that's where community institutions can really, can really thrive.

[00:45:39] Josh: So coming back to the entrepreneurial system that you guys use, you were

[00:45:44] Josh: saying that you also really recommend that even within the credit union and community bank space to kind of think like an entrepreneur to do what we were just talking about.

[00:45:53] Josh: So can you talk to me a little bit about, just some of the theories behind the system, how it works, how you implement it, and what some of your recommendations are?

[00:46:00] Jenn: Yeah, I would say, you know, growing a business, you kind of go through tranches of growth, right? You, you start and you maybe have one small idea and it's okay. You don't really need any formalization 'cause it's a small idea. And then as that idea gets bigger and your teams get bigger and you have more customers to support, you have to formalize some of the framework that the business runs off of.

[00:46:21] Jenn: And so, I'm involved in several CEO networking groups, YPO, Vistage, et cetera. And I was listening to what I love about that is the exposure to other CEOs that are outside of financial services. There are a wide array of every industry you can possibly imagine. And I kept hearing this EOS framework come up.

[00:46:40] Jenn: And so I read the book, get a Grip. Which is a fable about a small business who was going through challenges and growth, and they implemented this strategy and this framework and tools and how it catapulted their success. And success can mean anything. Success can just be, I've got the right people in the right seat, I've got the right metrics in order to, measure what success looks like, or I wanna see tremendous growth of my organization.

[00:47:07] Jenn: And so I've recommended it. We're seeing a lot of new CEOs, whether they're coming in through merger and acquisition. We're seeing a wave of retirees in the community, financial institution space at the C level. And so I've recommended it to a lot of incoming CEOs or new CEOs to be thinking about how do they now come into this organization?

[00:47:27] Jenn: Again, it might be an organization that's been around for 50 years, and now you're coming in as a fresh face and you want to reinvigorate without distracting. So EOS really helps with that. It allows the, the businesses to create near term goals. So you have big rocks that each, leader has for their quarter.

[00:47:46] Jenn: You have very specific metrics that you report on every Friday on your level 10 meetings. You have a one year, a three year, a five year, and a 10 year vision, that you review on an annual basis. And so it gives you that accountability and structure that you need while at the same time giving you full visibility into what the organization is doing.

[00:48:06] Jenn: It's, it's been tremendous for us. It really, funny enough, when we started, I was concerned that we weren't gonna have enough time because of our calendars and meetings and, and what it actually ended up doing was reducing the number of one-on-one meetings with my direct report, and created a much more collaborative.

[00:48:24] Jenn: Culture. And when we've had major something come up that's like a big project that, that requires a lot of folks and a, and a pretty intense roadmap, we've been able to be more efficient because we get together on these, on these level 10 meetings as a leadership team, and we slice and dice. I, I've just seen the time reduced significantly to make decisions on, on projects.

[00:48:47] Jenn: So, yeah, I probably sent that book to 30 CEOs in the past 

[00:48:51] Josh: Really? 

[00:48:52] Jenn: It's, yeah, it's just something, and I'm not endorsing, I'm not paid by them. I 

[00:48:56] Josh: Hey, I was gonna say where, what's the kick? No, I'm just kidding.

[00:48:58] Jenn: I know that's critical. We do not take money from both outside others. 

[00:49:03] Josh: No, you gotta you gotta get what is the, what do they call it when you're like a,

[00:49:07] Jenn: a royalty. Oh, like an, oh yeah. I'm, I'm a no influencer. 

[00:49:11] Josh: get, Yeah. you get a coupon, like, buy this book through my coupon code.

[00:49:15] Josh: You get 10% off and I get a. 

[00:49:18] Jenn: Right. No, I'm a big believer in, in, and I've, I've been this way from day one is when you pick up the phone and you talk to somebody, hopefully they take something away from that conversation, otherwise you're not adding any value. So I feel like in addition to what we're doing in helping our clients in their day to day work that we're, you know, they hire us for, I'm just a big believer on any time I can provide insight that somebody didn't know anything about or, Hey, have I heard somebody over here having that exact same problem?

[00:49:44] Jenn: Let me connect you guys so that you can work through it together. That's just, that's core to, to who we are. So that's how I kind of feel about that book. It helped us, so maybe it could help others.

[00:49:54] Josh: Okay. I, I want to throw a curve ball at you. You

[00:49:57] Josh: used two words, like almost within the same sentence that I've been thinking a lot about lately, that it's value and success, and. just to put you in my shoes and why, why I've been thinking about this a lot, right? Is you, you think about, let's just call a spade a spade.

[00:50:17] Josh: Like, you know what, what my day job is, right? And, you know, having conversations with community financial institutions about digital banking, it's a really big project. This is not some, this is not a widget. Somebody's not

[00:50:29] Josh: buying this off the internet. This is not a, you know, B2C sale where somebody's just gonna order a hundred of our trinkets and we're gonna ship 'em out, kind of thing.

[00:50:38] Josh: These are like long-term commitment, relationship based products that have, you know, widespread impact across your organization, and more importantly, your account holders. So people don't

[00:50:50] Josh: make these decisions lightly. And so, as I go into a lot of these conversations, that has been a lot of, like what I've been mulling about in my head is, okay, how do we one, add and extract value in this scenario, but two, how do we define success? And that's why I say I want to kind of throw you a curve ball. That's kind of your job,

[00:51:12] Jenn: Right.

[00:51:13] Josh: right? So like, I don't know,

[00:51:14] Josh: I'm just curious how, so how do you think about when, when you are, you know, working with one of your customers and you're saying, Hey, like we have to find a, like if you're gonna hire us as the quote unquote experts, like how do we bring value to this conversation? And then how do you de determine and define success? Like, what does success look like?

[00:51:37] Jenn: it's, it's different for every single client. And so that's the, that's the thing about. Consulting that is, makes it interesting is every, every interaction I was on a call with a client right before this, and the complexity of the decisions and making one decision on a payment solution affects the digital integration capabilities.

[00:51:59] Jenn: And if they're not thinking about that at the broadest level, they might make a siloed decision that affects the organization and their account holders, tremendously. And they won't realize it till it's too late. So we spend a ton of time in early discovery with our clients to identify what success looks like.

[00:52:16] Jenn: It, you know, success in, based on the market conditions could be, I need to save as much money as possible. I'm paying too much. I need to find me money. Right? And the definition of success is cost savings. So when we get into projects like that, that's our, those are the glasses that we're, that's the filter that we're looking through versus efficiency, scalability.

[00:52:39] Jenn: Geographical reach, right? There's, there's, I wanna get more, I wanna get access to more people within my community. I wanna focus on financial literacy and, and education. I wanna, give back to my community in a philanthropic way. Like all of these things are okay. As you're thinking through the projects, at the end of the day, what are you, what is, success defined?

[00:53:01] Jenn: And that comes from the client. We just help facilitate the discussion, but then we carry that through to the end, and that's oftentimes where decisions are made. You said Success bank or credit union, you said success was this at the beginning. As you're making your final decision using that lens, which decision are you gonna make?

[00:53:19] Jenn: And I, too often there's distractions along the way, I think when folks don't have someone helping facilitate that conversation. But it is very different depending on the size of the organization, the projects they're working on, the leadership, the ability to make decisions, tough decisions. 'Cause that's what you run into, right?

[00:53:35] Jenn: I remember my digital banking days, having somebody go through a digital banking change or a core change or a payments provider change is a big decision because it affects, it affects the, the member or the customer at the end of the day. And, and sometimes people are afraid to make those decisions. And it's our job to give them the insight, the data, the expertise to have the peace of mind, to make the right decision, even if it's a scary one,

[00:54:01] Josh: You know, that's, that's a good point. You know, as a as think about just being on this side of the table. Right. You know, we, we go through a lot of these different evaluations with institutions, and you're right, like the definition of success is totally different. And it's one, it's different across all of these.

[00:54:22] Josh: So if I just assume that everybody's definition of success is the same, then by de facto, I'm gonna be wrong a

[00:54:28] Josh: lot more than I'm gonna be. Right? But two, I think the challenge comes in if the institution doesn't have their own concrete definition of success that they agree on. Because I think a lot of times too, what we see is, is that folks get to the end. And I I, I like the way you said it. I want, I, I'm gonna have to paraphrase 'cause I don't remember exactly, but it was like, the decision should get made at the very end. You gotta remember what did we start with as saying the

[00:54:55] Josh: definition of successes? And now that may change throughout a project, right? But if you don't have it kind of clearly defined and documented. Like, I think that it should be written out somewhere that at the end of this, what is our goal? Our goal is to

[00:55:09] Josh: save 10% over our current provider. Great. Then that's how you should approach that,

[00:55:13] Josh: right.

[00:55:13] Josh: You should go in and just say, Hey look, we are looking to save money. This is so who's gonna be able to provide at least apples to apples at 10% less?

[00:55:23] Josh: Because that is our goal. That is our definition of success.

[00:55:26] Josh: Right.

[00:55:27] Josh: But you know, I like to use, oh, go ahead.

[00:55:29] Jenn: I always, I equate that to, in our process, to, the scenario of like CarMax or any car buying, I guess Carvana now you could do. But, the analogy that I, I used with my team is, you know, as a mom with two kids sports bags, lacrosse sticks, I might want to drive a two-door convertible. The reality of that is when I go to buy a car, I might get completely distracted by this amazing two door convertible that does not fit the needs of my family.

[00:55:57] Jenn: So we need to just, in those filters, remove the distraction of the two door convertible and focus in on the needs that I've identified, which is I need four doors, I need trunk space, I need, and that those are the filters that I'm making decisions on. Because it, it can be distracting, it can be, I don't know, down the road, the wrong decision gets made because you were distracted by the shiny two-door convertible instead of what you really needed.

[00:56:23] Jenn: And so if you don't know what those requirements are early on, you're gonna, you're gonna make the wrong decision. So that's kind of how we look at it.

[00:56:29] Josh: That's funny that that kind of comes back to what you, I can't remember if we, now, if we actually said this on the recording or not, but you were telling me back to kind of your origin story about like, that was one of the things that you struggled with personally was being, you know, in my shoes and being on the vendor side,

[00:56:46] Josh: you were like, look, like I sell red two-door convertibles. And so Jen doesn't really need one, but that's all I have to offer her. So when

[00:56:57] Josh: she comes into my dealership, I'm like, Hey look, can you imagine what it would be like, just you and your husband

[00:57:03] Josh: a Sunday drive through wine country? Your hair's blowing in the wind and you're like, oh yes, and

[00:57:10] Josh: you.

[00:57:10] Josh: come home with this and your husband's like. Like, yeah. How are you gonna get the kids to soccer practice in this thing? Like,

[00:57:16] Josh: right. and and so now this gives you a different ability to be able to say, okay, no, no, no. So tell me first, what's your definition of success?

[00:57:24] Josh: Well, I've got two boys with a ton of sports gear, and I gotta get 'em to practice and, okay, cool.

[00:57:29] Josh: Now that I know your definition of success, let's get rid of that. I know that sports car looks cool. Let's get rid of that.

[00:57:34] Josh: Let's talk about, we got some cool SUVs, some mini bands, like let's go that route.

[00:57:38] Jenn: right. It's need and solution fit. And I think for what was eyeopening for me, I've said this, and no offense as a, as a solution provider out in the market, but you know, no vendor is perfect. And I thought for sure, having been on the vendor side when I was on the other side of the table helping clients, I'm like, oh, I'm gonna find that, that silver bullet vendor who's doing everything right, nobody's perfect, nobody's doing everything right.

[00:58:04] Jenn: So it's a matter of going into these decisions eyes wide open to say, okay. These are the risks that you incur by making decisions with certain vendors, or these are the pros and cons of each vendor and what they're gonna provide you. And based on your requirements and your definition of success, you need to be comfortable with, you know, where we end up at the, at the end of the project.

[00:58:25] Jenn: So it, for me was gratifying to get on the other side of the table and say, I'm not beholden to a certain, you know, vendor to, to, to force my product or my service at that client. And now we have the luxury and our, and there's so much change happening in our industry that our job is to stay ahead of it.

[00:58:45] Jenn: It's to make sure that we're continuing to research and read and get our hands in everything we possibly can so that we, we provide that outside in perspective for the folks that don't know what they don't know. Right? Those community financial institutions just don't know what they don't know. And it's our job to know it.

[00:58:59] Jenn: That's why they bring us in.

[00:59:01] Josh: You know, I love your, car buying example. One because I'm a simpleton and I like simple examples. Everybody's heard me say that many times on the show, but two, I'm a car nerd, so this just, it works

[00:59:11] Josh: perfect for me. But, as you were talking about it, I think that's a another great example of just you have to understand what your definitions of success are and kind of what's the priority of them. Because to your point, like, let's say you're going in to buy a car and you need to transport the two boys and all of their, you know, sports gear around and all of that. But if one of your definitions of success is that it's red, right? Then you gotta figure out like how high on the

[00:59:42] Josh: priority list really is that, Because if you find the perfect car, but it's not red. But the two-door convertible is red.

[00:59:51] Josh: Like, if that was your number one definition of success is that it be red, then you'd, again, you end up with the wrong car

[00:59:57] Josh: and then I think, 

[00:59:58] Jenn: wait the priorities, right? You have to say, okay, is fraud more important than experience? Is price more important than fraud? And so, yeah, those are the discussions we're having every day. And I, I think, you know, unfortunately, when financial institutions don't have that guidance, you get, you just get into analysis paralysis because it is too hard to make a decision, and you're trying to make everybody happy on your team, and you're thinking about you're gonna make every member or customer happy, and you're not, you're not gonna make every member on your team happy when you, whenever you make some of these buying decisions.

[01:00:31] Jenn: So you're right. It's, it's waiting the priorities.

[01:00:34] Josh: Well, and I like what you said too about, you know, you don't know what you don't know either. And that's

[01:00:38] Josh: not a, that, that's not meant in any disrespect, right? I mean. Same thing. Like I, I don't know what I don't know about whatever. Right.

[01:00:46] Josh: And kind of back to your car buying example, like if my definition of success is to get a car that transports the kids in their sports gear, but I don't know that since the last time I looked at cars, one of the things that's an option in the market with certain manufacturers is a built-in vacuum.

[01:01:06] Jenn: Right.

[01:01:07] Josh: Then that's not even on my definitions of success list for my

[01:01:10] Josh: car. But if I go through and I say, Hey, look, what, what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to maintain an efficient life and these are the things that are important to me, transporting my kids, I'm a little bit of a neat freak. Like I still like to be clean.

[01:01:25] Josh: So like maybe a car that's got easy surfaces to wipe down if somebody is helping to. Like advocate for me in that scenario. Then they're gonna tell me things like, well, hey, if that's important to you, did

[01:01:35] Josh: You know that you can get vacuums now in the

[01:01:38] Jenn: Right, right.

[01:01:38] Josh: Now, that may be added to my definitions of success list when

[01:01:43] Josh: it would not have been previously.

[01:01:45] Jenn: Exactly. Yeah. It's a great place to be in the ability to have broad perspective across our industry in every vendor that our clients work with. It's a really cool, it's a really cool spot to be.

[01:01:59] Josh: I imagine it's gotta be like, how do you sleep at night too?

[01:02:03] Josh: Like, how do you turn your brain off?

[01:02:05] Jenn: Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I, I have good people on my team. That's how, that's how it is. I know that my team's got a full handle on, on what they're doing. And, we have folks that are deep subject matter experts in their, in their service lines, and that's helpful. But back to, back to some of the framework that we've implemented in the data sharing and knowledge sharing through technology.

[01:02:25] Jenn: We have more visibility than we ever have into all the key areas of the business. And so that, that's, it's at my fingertips, so to speak.

[01:02:32] Josh: Yeah, I think, and that's a good like use case example for our fis and ourselves too, right? Is like, that's a

[01:02:39] Josh: great way that technology can just kind of help up level information dissemination.

[01:02:45] Josh: Because even then, like just using our example of, being able to spin up a teller on all of the knowledge that maybe a 20 year teller would have quicker, but at the same time, like. I had a, a guest, on the show, not too long ago, who's the CEO of a good sized credit union, and we just, we kind of went down this rabbit hole where he was like, man, I wish that I could hear every conversation that our tellers are having with our members. And he's like, not because I don't trust what they're saying or anything.

[01:03:17] Josh: He's like, it's just, that's where the fascinating conversations are. And that's where I could be more informed about the decisions that I could make for our credit union that would have the biggest value add and, you know, impacts to our members. And

[01:03:31] Josh: it's like, that's a place, you know, I don't know if we wanna get this creep, but you know, you got microphones on every single teller line that pick up every interaction and recorded a separate audio tracks and an AI analyzes it and gives you a top five trends this week.

[01:03:44] Josh: Email to the

[01:03:44] Jenn: Yeah, I mean that's, that's where they're going with, with contact centers, right? I mean, the, the disposition of the calls, the ability to hear fraudulent, uh, you know, key components that are gonna be indicative of a fraudulent call that that's happening. I mean, that is the probably earliest term use case on the AI side is, is within those conversations that are already being recorded within the contact center.

[01:04:05] Jenn: So it's gonna be a, it's gonna be a wild ride here for the next, you know, probably five years as to how people start implementing this and acting on it.

[01:04:13] Josh: Yeah. But like you were saying too, I mean, this is just, then there will be the next thing,

[01:04:17] Jenn: I know. Which is exciting.

[01:04:19] Josh: that's, that's the, the point of innovation

[01:04:21] Josh: is this is the big innovation right now, but there's gonna be another one next.

[01:04:26] Josh: And I, I don't know, this is really cool to be able to talk to folks like yourself in our industry who, you know, this is an industry that cares so much about the people side of things.

[01:04:34] Jenn: Mm-hmm.

[01:04:34] Josh: So we're thinking about building businesses and supporting the businesses that are leveraging technology to be efficient, to be able to stay relevant, to be able to do the things that they need to do, but kind of always falling back on the culture and the heart and the service side of things. And then, you know, to your point of just, you know, having somebody to help kind of be a navigator through all of that, is probably pretty cool.

[01:04:57] Josh: I imagine that's a lot of fun.

[01:04:59] Jenn: That's great. The trusted, the trusted advocate, trusted advisor side of what we do is unmatched.

[01:05:06] Josh: I love that. Well, Jen, this has been an absolute awesome way to spend my Friday, but before I let you go, I got two final questions for you.

[01:05:17] Josh: So, given what you do, how do you stay up to date? You said you've got a great team, but how do you stay up to date on what's happening in the industry? I.

[01:05:27] Jenn: I am reading as much as I possibly can listening to podcasts like this. We have access to a ton of information, so through the industry channels and the, vendors that we interact with, we have actually on our, our teams channels, one of them is industry news and updates, and that's literally getting updated from every employee on our team.

[01:05:49] Jenn: So frequently there'll be updates on, did you hear that this is going on? So I learn a lot from my team internally, just on, on the information. They have access to LinkedIn. I'm, I'm on 24 hours a day. Listening and reading, you have to be intellectually curious. That's also another kind of key component of.

[01:06:06] Jenn: Who we bring on board is, is just because you've been in an industry for 20 plus years, you have to still wanna learn more about this industry. You can't just rely on, you know, data points that you had in your career 10 years ago and 'cause it's changing so quickly. So, yeah, I, and I listen to a lot of, founders podcasts too, to, to keep me invigorated on the, on the entrepreneurial front.

[01:06:27] Josh: That's, I should check that out. Um, 'cause yeah, I find that so curious. Like I said, I don't know if I'm ever gonna be the one to do it, but I find it really fascinating.

[01:06:36] Jenn: Yeah. There was a, I was listening to the, there's literally a podcast called Founders and talk about use of ai. The, the guy was, saying that he reads like 50 biographies or autobiographies a year. And then he was sharing in the podcast his feedback on the autobiographies. And then what he did is he had AI take all of the compilation so that if you as an entrepreneur, as a founder were struggling with scale or hiring or technology investment, you can actually query his site and it will bring you examples from the 50 biographies or 

[01:07:08] Josh: Oh rad. 

[01:07:09] Jenn: of that, item.

[01:07:10] Jenn: So that's, and then I come back to my team and say, this is a great idea. We could deploy internally on all of the vendor data that we have. So I try to listen to those things and then relate it back to, to our business and our industry as best I can.

[01:07:23] Josh: That's cool. Well then, I guess this kind of leads to the next question, which is if people want to just short circuit all of that, they don't want to maybe do all of it.

[01:07:32] Josh: How can they connect with you or how can they learn more about Engage Fi or connect with you and the organization?

[01:07:39] Jenn: I, I would say probably every industry event you will see someone from our team. We are highly entrenched in, uh, in all the trade shows and conferences, but easiest is LinkedIn. Follow us on LinkedIn at Engage Fi or connect with me personally. Happy to have conversations about this all day, every day.

[01:07:55] Jenn: Very passionate about, about what we're doing. Yeah. And our website, engage afi.com. We just did a relaunch and the team did a fantastic job. 

[01:08:01] Josh: Oh, nice. 

[01:08:03] Jenn: Yeah.

[01:08:03] Josh: Well, you know, again, I, I just, it's really cool to be able to talk to people like you and hear your origin story of like. How did you start this thing? But I think why those stories are so interesting and why I love to talking to folks like you is it's actually more interesting to hear how you keep it alive and how do you keep evolving and innovating it. So thank you for taking time outta your busy Friday to

[01:08:27] Josh: come and be a guest on the Digital Banking podcast.

[01:08:30] Jenn: I am happy to, I'm, I'm passionate about this. I think your, your outreach is great and, excited to see where the industry's gonna go. I know you and I are both along for the ride on this one.

[01:08:39] Josh: Yeah, that's true. I'm not going anywhere. This is too

[01:08:42] Josh: much fun. 

[01:08:44] Jenn: Thanks, Josh. I appreciate it.

[01:08:45] Josh: thanks, Jen. 

[01:08:46] Thank you for listening to the Digital Banking Podcast, powered by Tyfone. Find more episodes on digitalbankingpodcast.com or subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your favorite podcasts.