4D3D6188_93 – Tyfone – Digital Banking Podcast – James Burke-Frazier

James Burke-Frazier: [00:00:00] I don’t want to be programmed every hour on the hour, go in there and read another PowerPoint presentation. Again, I could do that remotely at home. I want access to sit down and talk to clients. I want to be able to ask questions. I want to be able to ask questions of me, and I think that’s what sets good conferences apart for me.

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Josh DeTar: Welcome to another episode of the Digital Banking Podcast. My guest today is James Burke-Frazier or JBF as we all know him, Yes Architect at Jack Henry. I’ve had the absolute pleasure of knowing JBF for a number of years, although I may have a slight disdain for him due to his ability to bump me on the upgrade list on Alaska Airlines.

And he seems to end up on a lot of flights with me each year. Although he is kind enough to wave to me as I walk past him in his first class seat to get to my middle seat in the back of the plane. In all seriousness though, anytime his name comes up, the first thing that comes to my mind is genuine.

James is one of those personalities that you truly cannot fake. For those of you, and I know there are many that know him even a little, can attest to the authenticity of that statement. JBF says he has always been passionate about credit unions and would be even if he didn’t work in the industry in any capacity.

It’s just a part of his [00:03:00] core DNA, the fabric of what makes him, him. This passion for service and service in pursuit of something noble, which ultimately is the credit union mission. He gets excited each and every day to find the chocolate and peanut butter examples. Although, side note, with Halloween being tomorrow and the fact all this candy is in my house, now all I want is a Reese’s, so thanks for that, JBF.

James Burke-Frazier: that.

Josh DeTar: But the example is one of finding a fit between a question and an answer. There are a never ending evolution of questions in our industry about how do you both provide value and stay relevant. James takes the mission of having an answer to the top of his priority list. And it’s for that reason, one of his favorite things to do is to learn and to stretch his brain at every opportunity he gets.

While he didn’t go to school for tech, he found a love for it by accident. He went to school to be a teacher, which makes so much sense given his desire to help others get answers to questions that will ultimately help them grow and succeed. Now, like I mentioned before, [00:04:00] JBF is one of the most honest to goodness, genuine people that I know.

It comes through when you talk to him about things like his close to 30 year marriage with his wife. And I will say it, you know, the way he talks about her is nothing short of absolutely beautiful and inspiring. And one of the many reasons why I respect him so much. So I am deeply humbled and freakishly excited to have him on the show today.

So James, welcome to the show. I’m excited. finally got you here.

James Burke-Frazier: I’m excited to be here. You know, what’s that TV? Long time listener, first time caller. And, just, yeah, excited to just sit and, you know, spend some time. I mean, unless I have it, unless I get to see you at conferences or see you walking past me to the cheap seats on a plane, I don’t really get a chance to talk to you, you know, just selfishly for our stuff.

We’re always, you know, on the floor or working between things like that. So I’m excited. I think it’s gonna be fun.

Josh DeTar: Well, and you know what makes this extra special [00:05:00] is for those of you that are just listening. This is actually the first time where we are officially also recording the video. I was saving this and see his genuine reaction. He didn’t know we were saving the very first video

James Burke-Frazier: wow. I was told I have a face for radio.

Josh DeTar: Well, I was just going to say it. So

James Burke-Frazier: This is gonna be tough on your ratings, sir. Real tough on your ratings.

Josh DeTar: I was just gonna say this is so that everybody gets to see your beautiful face and they have my ugly mug to get it.

James Burke-Frazier: Well, you’re in a tech, you’re in a tech company. I figure you’re gonna do something magical with this, with filters.

Josh DeTar: Oh, we use like a unicorn bitmoji

James Burke-Frazier: I was thinking of a Pierce Bronson filter, but you do I’m just saying, I could imagine this as a little 007 with your technology skills.

Josh DeTar: You know, I just feel like that would take away from the beauty of who you

James Burke-Frazier: Well, you called me genuine in that. So that kind of ruins that 

Josh DeTar: idea.

Does kind of kill that. Yeah.

James Burke-Frazier: Yeah.

Josh DeTar: No, you know, what’s [00:06:00] so funny is, and it’s actually one of the reasons why I was super excited to have you as a guest on the podcast is, you know, the types of interactions and conversations that you and I have is exactly why we started this podcast in the first place. I don’t know if I’ve ever actually really told the story of how this podcast started on the 

James Burke-Frazier: podcast 

Josh DeTar: But, You know, the podcast really started out as a joke and the joke was a joke that I used to tell my wife and I used to always tell her that much like her, I’m actually a total introvert.

I’m just a well-paid extrovert. And you know, if I had my druthers, I’d rather be an introvert at home, quiet, not talking to anybody. But when you put a paycheck in front of me, I’m happy to be an extrovert. And the pandemic hit and I realized that was a complete and utter lie. And I was a lot more extroverted than I was willing to lead on to.

And, and where I found that really manifested itself in my professional life was conversations with people like you, right? Because to your point, like the only times you and I get to see each other is on a plane, or, you know, as, I see you at a conference running around in fourth gear, like a madman, like you always [00:07:00] do.

I lost those opportunities, right? You and I didn’t have those conversations through the pandemic. And so this became a way to facilitate those. And that’s, what’s become so cool about this is exactly what you just said, right? Like the conversations that we have at a conference, now people get to eavesdrop in and listen to the types of things you and I talk about, which, you know, apparently, unfortunately, probably for a lot of people, it’s going to be very boring and, and unexciting, but for us, it’s riveting.

James Burke-Frazier: I say, I feel like you’re my brother from a, another mother because I’m like you, I, when I’m at home, I don’t need to interact with people. I don’t need to worry about, you know, their technology questions. But by not being able to interact with people, I felt like I didn’t get a chance to charge my excitement, charge my battery, charge my innovation.

And so by during COVID, I felt like I was one of the few people that enjoyed zoom calls or Teams calls with the camera on, because I feel like I do best face to face. I [00:08:00] don’t present well, for remote meetings. I don’t present well on PPTs, you know, on, on zoom or whatever it’s in person.

What was worse was when the camera’s off and I’m presenting, I felt like I was just like going through the motions. So being able to be back on the road, talking to clients, other vendors, other people, it’s just a way to steal sexy. It’s steel energy from me because when I see passionate people doing things, it just reminds me that’s why I want to be passionate and I want to do things because I see people doing exciting and interesting things.

And so I, like you, I. You know, when I can turn it off, I can turn it off, but I’m just excited to be back on the road again. And all the conference cycles doing stuff because it just gets a chance to interact with clients and people like yourself.

Josh DeTar: Yeah, you know, and I think that was one of the topics that we even had talked about, you know, wanting to talk about on this episode was just, you know, kind of the importance of that in person side of things and the ability [00:09:00] to be at conferences to really network and get to the heart of, you know, the conversation and have long-form conversation with folks and, you know, it is, it’s actually really hilarious how often we find each other on the same flight.

And we were joking before we started recording, we’re like, man, like, the one thing that has never happened in all these years, what’s never happened is we’ve never actually had the seats next to each other. And it’s probably the good Lord just looking out for whoever would be next to us.

James Burke-Frazier: God, imagine being in between us too?

Josh DeTar: Yeah. Oh gosh.

We both 

James Burke-Frazier: have a, we both have high enough status that unless we’re trying to hop a plane. Or, change our flight? It’s not like we’re normally sitter seats, right? So, you in A and I’m in C and poor schmucks in B thinking to themselves going, 

Josh DeTar: I’d rather sit in the bathroom than be between

these two guys. Yeah.

James Burke-Frazier: What, can I head to the farther in the back? You can skip the free premium economy drink, I’m okay. I’ll head to the back, right? That would be it. So, but I, selfishly, I wanted to ask You, you know, I see you at conferences. I mean, I see you at the, you [00:10:00] know, different ones. How do you choose which conference you go to?

I mean, just selfishly. I mean, I know there’s work, you know, work tells us what conferences we go to too, but we all have some, a little bit of, ability to fine-tune our own calendars. What makes a conference that you want to go to, a conference?

Josh DeTar: Yeah, you know, that’s a great question. You know, for, I think there’s two layers to that, right? What’s first off us as an organization going to participate and then of the ones that our organization participates in, like, where do I go personally? And, you know, I think a lot like you, right? I laugh that, you know, you got to make up your title. I got to make up my title. Apparently that’s what they do

James Burke-Frazier: It’s a thing.

Josh DeTar: With, weirdos like us is they put us in some corner and say, make up your own title and just, you know, just stay productive. I don’t know. But, you know, for me personally, what’s really important is the ROI.

And it’s how much money can, no, I’m just kidding. Now the ROI is how much collaboration can I get out right? What’s the value in the [00:11:00] people that I’m going to be able to have conversations with, because let’s be honest. And the pandemic taught us this, right? We can do everything virtual. It is possible.

We’ve been through extremely long, complex sales cycles with large financial institutions where we never met in person. It is physically possible. But it ain’t as much fun.

James Burke-Frazier: Right. You don’t build the connections, you know, right? You can accomplish the goal. You know, we can install software remotely. Hell, I can double click and install stuff on my desktop myself. But if I had the person there, I get that knowledge transfer that, you know, that little bit of touch time as things are going, and I feel like it builds a better long-term relationship by I get to ask questions that come up in the moment that I can’t plan for.

I could send you a list of 12 questions, but if you’re in person and I ask you the first question, I may have a better question that comes up than the next question on my [00:12:00] list, right? And so I feel like that ROI, that return on investment of my emotional investment in conferences is something I look for with conferences, right?

Josh DeTar: Yeah. I couldn’t agree more. Yeah. You know, so it’s, when we look at it as an organization, we do, we look at it as, you know, what’s the opportunity for us to have conversations. You know, that further our, you know, our collaboration in the industry and further our opportunity to create awareness about who we are, what we do.

And obviously, you know, connect with customers, prospective customers, et cetera. So we look at, you know, who’s going to be in attendance. Does it meet with, you know, the types of people that we need to, you know, network with the institution or, you know, the right types of institutions. You know, Jack Henry, credit union would be a perfect example, right?

makes a lot of sense for us to go to a Jack Henry conference. Why we have a really, really strong partnership with Jack Henry in a ton of different facets, and we have a bunch of customers that utilize a lot of our products and a lot of Jack Henry products, so it’s very important for us to build [00:13:00] relationships with other key vendors for our customers.

So that makes, you know, kind of that decision-making process easy. And then, you know, kind of going back to how do we think about some of it from just, you know, what do I go to is I’ll give you actually a really perfect prime example. Next year is an interesting one and the first big conference of the year is actually the first two big conferences of the year and somehow they both got scheduled at the exact same time and that’s CUNA GAC Conference and the FinTech Meetup.

One’s in DC, one’s in Vegas, and they are at the exact same time. It is physically impossible for me to be at both. So the question is, which one do I go to or either? Right? And so we look at, okay, well, what’s the, you know, networking value at something like, the FinTech Meetup? Well, let’s call a spade a spade, right?

That’s a great one for our sales team to go and network with customers, because you get to have really genuine, like, you know, almost, dare I say it on air, like Tinder-level matching. It’s like, I want to talk about digital [00:14:00] banking. Do you want to? And if the answer is yes, we’ll get a 15 minute meeting at FinTech Meetup, right?

So it makes a lot of sense for them and our partnerships team like Jared to go and be able to have conversations about, you know, partnerships to expand our ecosystem. And then, you know, what is GAC? GAC is all about kind of the grassroots efforts of ensuring that our industry, you know, has the ability to maintain relevancy and to be able to.

You know, really kind of, you know, further the mission of what credit unions are doing for, you know, the US financial ecosystem.

James Burke-Frazier: And seen there, right? Being seen there as a vendor, alongside passionate credit unions that are pursuing that mission is not only do you get a chance to have a talk with somebody, but just being there and showing the support is something, right? I mean, there’s an awful lot of vendors that are willing to sell people stuff.

God, how many are there? But if you’re in the trenches with them, trying to make sure that credit unions stay relevant, stay,[00:15:00]  in, you know, as a point of value for our members moving forward. That’s also something about being part of the credit union vendor ecosystem, right? You got to be in for a penny in for a pound.

And so, yeah, that’s a tough set of conferences. Those are two I don’t usually go to. So, but I spend an awful lot of time on teams like ready to answer questions that are sent to me by people who do. 

Josh DeTar: Yeah, by people who do 

James Burke-Frazier: I, I I, am like, and that’s the worst at GAC, to be honest, worse than FinTech because at least the FinTech Meetups, they’re not as crazy as you’ll run across a, you know, 7p.m. out at the, food and mingle and I’m getting someone from somebody’s phone saying, Hey, do we do this? And I’m like, I’m halfway through a burger, you know, and I’m like, well, fine, I’ll answer this one too, you know, I mean, but that’s the type of questions you get, right? You just never know those type of conferences.

So do you, have you ever gone to Money20/20 or Money whatever?

Josh DeTar: Funny enough, so I did not go this year. It was [00:16:00] actually last week.

James Burke-Frazier: Right? Vegas, right?

Josh DeTar: But Marcel, our chief commercial officer, Keith, the head of our payments division, and Cortez, one of our product managers from that team, they were there, they were just kind of a boots on the ground, epic, you know, mercenary guerrilla warfare team, just doing their thing, hustling.

I think they probably, you know, in total between the three of them over three days, probably slept a total of three hours. Yeah. That’s a wild one I’ve never been to.

James Burke-Frazier: It’s on my bucket list. It’s I’ve never been, I’ve never been to the FinTech Meetup or Money and, but it’s on my, I don’t necessarily even need to, I think I just want to go there to experience the creativity and the energy on the floor because I feel like there are a lot of, There are a lot of up-and-comers and there’s a lot of the usual suspects and I feel like they all generate a different type of dialogue on what’s coming down pipe for products, services, et cetera.

And I wouldn’t even need to be there with a Jack Henry shirt on. I think I just love roaming the floor, right? I just feel like that’s the type of place [00:17:00] that something interesting would happen and I’d like to be there to experience something interesting.

Josh DeTar: Well, I feel like you probably have enough miles to get a free ticket to Vegas for 

James Burke-Frazier: that. So I’m just throwing it out there.

I do. I do. know, it’s opportunity costs. That’s the other right? So back to yours. You choose A or choose B. If you choose B, you choose not to do A

Josh DeTar: that is hard,

James Burke-Frazier: So that’s part of the conference cycle too, is when you choose to go to A, you’re listing B, C and D that you’re probably not going to go to.

And that always makes it tough.

Josh DeTar: That is hard. I think that’s hard for personalities like ours too, right? Where again, like the whole reason we want to go to those types of events is to work on the collaboration with others in our industry that helps us to grow and expand. And you know, like the case in point of FinTech Meetup and GAC for me.

There’s so much additional value in me going to GAC from the advocacy side of things. The fact that you talked about earlier, like I’m a board member for a credit union. So, you know, sometimes it helps make that decision a lot easier, right? [00:18:00] But if it’s like, man, two similar types conferences on different sides of the country and you can’t be at both or quite frankly, like it comes down to the point of, you know, you’re also, there’s a sacrifice of the at home time and the family

James Burke-Frazier: That’s the third leg of the stool, right? It’s what is good for the company. What’s good for your own, you know, thing. But then there’s a cost on the other side, right? So how many days, maybe this, how many miles did you travel this last year? Do you think?

Josh DeTar: Well, if I do a last minute, Portland to Orlando, get off the plane, walk back on, fly back, I’ll probably be a 100K this year. So just for those of you listening, like, that’s kind of the life that, JBF and I live, right, is, you know, a hundred thousand miles on a single airline that doesn’t take into account the Delta flights I took.

James Burke-Frazier: Yeah. That’s not counting the ones that couldn’t. Yeah. Right.

Josh DeTar: You know, you add all that up and, you know, the one that actually I hate the most. I hate it. Is logging into my Hilton account because that tells you how many nights away from home you’ve been and it’s the very thing you see you log [00:19:00] in.

James Burke-Frazier: It is. It’s like I think they think it’s something we want to know, but it’s the points is what I want to know. Don’t tell me how many days I’ve not been, you know, in my own bed, relaxing and having a cup of coffee with my wife the next morning. Trust me, I know

Josh DeTar: Yeah, I know. I know the depths of my soul.

James Burke-Frazier: In my soul when I wake up.

I was laughing. I was at one Hampton Inn And, you know, they do, you know, they do waffles there. It is the one thing for waffles breakfast and I kid you not. I go there and their waffle was in, it’s a state of Texas was the waffle and I’m like going, is this to let business travelers know where you are when you come in late at night and you’re not sure what state you’re in just to let you know your breakfast lets you know where you’re

Josh DeTar: you’re in Texas right

James Burke-Frazier: Texas today. You thought you were in Louisiana. But nope, you’re in Texas, Josh. You just forgot that trip between this other trip. So, there you go.

Josh DeTar: Well, and it’s like the, what’s the [00:20:00] Alaska Airlines if you’re gold or higher, right? On any flight, if you’re not in first class, they always give you chocolate.

James Burke-Frazier: Yeah.

Josh DeTar: And I always love when, you know, the Alaska, Airlines attendant, like gives me my chocolate and says, you know, thank you for your business.

And the person next to me has never seen somebody get one of these chocolates. And they’re like, Hey, how’d you get chocolate? I want chocolate. And I’m like, no, you don’t trust me. What this chocolate tells me is how many nights I’ve been away from my family. Like that’s

James Burke-Frazier: And, it’s also made with smoked sea salt? What? This is what’s, like, what I’m missing in my chocolate is smoked salt.

Josh DeTar: What? Why are you hating on the smoked salt? It’s so good. What are you? Oh my No way.

Mint 

James Burke-Frazier: ones so much

Josh DeTar: Okay, the mint ones are 

James Burke-Frazier: good

Mint ones are, it’s like the smoked salts are like, thank you for participating.

Josh DeTar: Okay, you know the one that I didn’t think would be amazing though that I miss is the like crispy quinoa one.

James Burke-Frazier: See, that, that makes me feel like we’re one step away from carob. Like somebody’s trying [00:21:00] to sneak in food. You know, boy, this guy, this guy looks like he needs more quinoa in his life. Right Here you go. You feeling regular as you can be? Here’s something special in your chocolate.

And I’m like, no thank you.

Josh DeTar: It’s like a Rice Krispie treat and chocolate

James Burke-Frazier: It’s, you know what would be like a Rice Krispie Treat and chocolate? Rice Krispie Treat and chocolate. You know what I mean? It’s like, yeah. So, but back to your cycle. So, I know, we’re getting into the weeds of travel. So, when you think about conferences, just selfishly for me, is it easier for you to go to a conference if you’re presenting, or just working a booth, or just roaming the floor?

Do you know what I mean? Back to your comment, there’s something you get personally out of attending the conference, versus what your company needs for you to attend the conference.

Josh DeTar: Yeah, totally. I think, you know, for me personally, one of my favorites is when I get to be on a panel,

James Burke-Frazier: Ooh,

Josh DeTar: That’s a lot of fun. Cause then I get the opportunity to kind of do [00:22:00] like what we’re doing here. Right. And usually it’s in a little bit more condensed format. But I’m a huge fan of respective arguing and just of presenting different positions.

You know, I’m one of those people that really loves to, like, I like my friend group to think differently than me. And not completely align whether, you know, politically, religiously, you know, professionally, because I want to hear other people’s perspectives and maybe somebody will change mine.

And so that’s what I love about panels is you get an opportunity to like have some discourse with somebody and, you know, banter back and forth. And it gives the audience an opportunity to kind of this podcast, right? Like see the behind the curtains, like what’s really working in the back of the brain.

What makes me tick and think about our industry in this way, or maybe this problem or this solution in our industry this way. And you know what others think about my position on that. I think that’s really cool. So I like that.

James Burke-Frazier: I want to be as emotionally aware as you are about why you like that. I am the other way. I have to present enough that [00:23:00] I like panels because personally, I have to do a lot less. Right. 

Josh DeTar: prep as much

James Burke-Frazier: if I’m PowerPointing you to death, I have to have 37 slides that have been, vetted. I have to have, is it, is this a then or a van?

cause the under the red doesn’t go up underneath it if it’s misspelled and you know, I have all this content, but if I’m on a panel or I’m facilitating a panel and says, Hey, Josh, what do you think? That’s wrong, but okay. How about you, Bob? Okay. Any questions? And I’m like, that was an hour of content.

I didn’t have to do jack squat for it. Crowd loves it because the crowd loves to hear smart people talking about smart things. And I’m up there just stealing sexy next to smart people on a panel. And I’m like going, this was brought to you by me. You’re welcome.

Josh DeTar: You’re welcome. And now I hate, no, I was laughing while you were talking about that too, because, I’m sure, what are we, let’s check the time clock. We’re 22 minutes and 56 seconds into recording and for our Jack [00:24:00] Henry marketing team that is listening, I’m sure they’re sitting there just biting their nails furiously like, ah, what’s he going to say?

Cause, know, they, they usually get a chance to edit all of your…

James Burke-Frazier: They try, the market, he marketing people. I mean, I try to, you know, be involved in social media. I try to keep track of stuff. The video production people at Jack Henry love me. Cause I’m a one take person. I am, I’m like, let’s just do this thing. We’ll do it live. And they’re all like, yes.

And then marketing is like, no.

Josh DeTar: no, oh gosh, what’s what’s 

James Burke-Frazier: he gonna 

Josh DeTar: do 

James Burke-Frazier: slow down. What’s wrong with taking four or five recordings and taking the best of the best. I’m like going, I think every time I reach, re say something, it gets dumber every single time I say it. So your first take is the best you’re going to get from me.

Josh DeTar: But that’s why I love you in this kind of format too, right? Is, you know, again, like this is a lot of, I think the power of having these types of conversations is you really get to understand, like, how did people arrive at the point versus just [00:25:00] hearing the point. And I think there’s a lot of value in hearing and even watching people struggle through their own thought process, which, you know, I say just defend myself because I struggle through my thought process a lot.

So that’s my prefacing, like why that’s a good thing. No, but so

James Burke-Frazier: I shift around in my seat when I’m wasting time trying to think of something smart. As you can see.

Josh DeTar: Well, hopefully you’ve wasted enough to think of something smart to say, cause you know, I want to kind of reverse this and back. And what do you think about it? Especially, you know, really you’re on the circuit a lot up there presenting, talking about things that are, you know, what you believe are relevant in our industry and, you know, positions and perspectives on how people should be thinking about or approaching them to what you were, you know, I alluded to in your intro, right?

Like you’re looking for that chocolate and peanut butter moment of, Hey, there’s, I’m sure this group of people in the crowd has a question. Question. I hope that my presentation is the answer to that question. How do you come up [00:26:00] with all of that? Like, how do you keep your finger on the pulse of what’s important?

And how do you build content around that?

James Burke-Frazier: I’d like to say that it’s because, you know, I have this deep insight to the credit union culture. It’s not. I think it’s the fact that for the last, God, 20 plus years, I’ve, I’ve really tried to facilitate access to myself for clients. I mean, vendors, clients, coworkers, I’m accessible.

And so when I try to create presentations out to, let’s say the user groups or, you know, JJ Connect, that was just a couple of weeks ago. Almost all my stuff is based on if I go back three months in my email box, what questions are people asking me off channel because I have for every person that stops me in person and asked me a question at a conference, I know that there are 50 or 60 of those similar people who don’t have access to me or don’t, maybe don’t know me well enough or don’t have a channel to [00:27:00] get ahold of me.

And so I just keep track of those types of questions and figure out, okay, how do I, how do I present this question that Josh asked me about this type of custom workflow that is really just bothering the credit union. It’s really just creating some friction between A and B. And then we just dig into, you know, Hey, this is how ABC credit union fixed it.

I very rarely have to go into say, this is how Jack Henry fixes something. Cause you know, we’re the tech stack. We’re not necessarily, I mean, we do develop stuff too. That’s fine. But our clients consuming our tech stack is where we out pace everybody and being a chance to tell clients about how the other clients address a problem.

That’s that peanut butter and chocolate moment for me. I mean, our clients love to understand how other clients have faced the same challenges they have and have come out the other side, doing better or to be honest, have faced a challenge, couldn’t address it and then change their mindset and [00:28:00] went at it a different way.

And so I think that’s the piece is that our clients have a hard time connecting with all, you know, thousands of other credit union people, right? But I am kind of a, you know, the spoke and wheel concept. I am a, I get connected to a lot of clients, a lot of vendors and a lot of other people.

And so I keep track of that stuff. And so I actually try to create examples of follow ups, et cetera, for all of my presentations that bring in that type of information to our, you know, that our clients have already asked me questions. I rarely break new ground. When my presentations, cause I don’t need to, I figure my presentations should be to extend the cool stuff that our other client, that our clients are doing, extend the cool stuff or extend the successes or overcoming a challenge that our clients or other vendors have done.

And so I feel like that, that creates impact that allows someone to walk away from on my sessions going. If nothing [00:29:00] else, I had a great burger last night. at the local bar and I got this question answered from JBF. So it was worth the flight to Poughkeepsie, you know, I mean, wherever the conference may be.

And so I think that, I probably feel like I present too much, but on the other hand, as long as I feel like I’m presenting, ideas and concepts that could help answer questions, I feel like, I am presenting just enough, if that makes sense.

Josh DeTar: No, it makes a lot of sense. You know, I think that’s actually a great, I was thinking about what you’re talking about. It’s, I think that’s one of the reasons why things like Reddit have become so successful, right? People are looking for community and collaboration around question. And, you know, I think are a lot more likely to maybe, you know, go to a forum and say, Hey, before I try and tackle this myself, because is anybody else, you know, put in their own sprinkler system, just curious, like was the process like, what is this something I should do while I ultimately save money on it?

[00:30:00] Right. And they can see somebody that’s done it before. It’s I think that’s a lot of what you know, your ecosystem is looking for is they’re looking for central point to take, you know, a lot of the questions and say, Hey, a lot of you have been asking, like, should you do your own sprinkler system? let me walk you through it.

Right.

James Burke-Frazier: I use the term build, buy, borrow, or steal. Right. I mean, I’m not an auditor. I’m not in compliance. I’m there to help you bury the bodies. Right. You know, I mean, I’m not in judgment or nothing like that. So for you, someone asked me a question, I’ll say, you know, yeah. That is a challenge, but hey, just want to let you know, if you connect with this credit union, they’ve walked a mile in those moccasins, you should ask them about how they did it out.

Am I going to be able to give you their solution? No, but you are credit unions. So credit unions talking to credit unions about creating solutions. That’s, you know, that’s part of that culture. That’s part of the, that grassroots flavor that you were talking about. I think that allows them to develop and [00:31:00] innovate as big shops,

when they’re just smaller shops, right? Because they get to listen and learn and interact in a big culture circle versus if you’re in a single conglomerate that doesn’t allow sharing, that doesn’t allow talking about the solutions that you’ve done, if you didn’t do it, it’s never been done, right? So yeah, it’s, that’s why I like credit unions so much.

I think they, I love the fact that they’re willing to talk to each other and share.

Josh DeTar: It makes a huge difference, but I, one little side comment just for, you know, my podcast production team, let’s probably maybe not pull out just without any context, the quote of, I helped bury the bodies, just, you know,

James Burke-Frazier: Yeah, that’s, if you could cut that out and send it to me in a GIF or something, or is it Jeff, I don’t know if you…

Josh DeTar: Actually, anybody answers that question, that’s…

James Burke-Frazier: that’s it, that was it, you could just do like this and have it pop up like as a bubble and that would be just my, I can put that as my LinkedIn [00:32:00] image, I bury the bodies,

Josh DeTar: the first slide in all your future presentations. Hi, I’m here to help bury the bodies.

James Burke-Frazier: Absolutely. actually, one of my first slides, I’ll have to ask you real quick. This is a complete segue. Do you have your jeopardy moment defined?

You know, when you go on jeopardy and they ask you a question about you and they, you know, Hey, it’s Alex Trebek. Hey, Josh, tell me about yourself. And they, you know, they do a little, you know, what makes you different or whatever.

So I’ve been working on those and been using those in my PowerPoints because I honestly believe that if I throw something out, honest, genuine, and self-effacing to the crowd. They feel more comfortable and they’re willing to answer and ask me questions later. It’s a, it’s just one of those things where it’s, you know.

They’re going to have some random person talking to you, you might as well let them know you’re a human. And so, I encourage you. First of all, I look forward to what yours is, because I fear it’s going to be really good. You know, working at a gunpowder factory. Let’s not, let’s save that for a different, let’s save that for a different podcast.

But guys, I don’t know if you guys [00:33:00] know, but, trained ammo maker here, in his youth, in his youth. So, you know that whatever that Jeopardy moment for you is, I’m waiting for it. And I think can be 

Josh DeTar: amazing.

Well, you know, what’s funny, is that story actually is my credit union story too. So, you know, fact, there’s actually some content that’s floating around that we produced, that I produced in conjunction with my credit union to tell a credit union story. So, I don’t know, maybe like some extra credit if anybody digs it up

James Burke-Frazier: I’ll be looking.

Josh DeTar: Read it and know the story, I’ll, I’ll send them a bottle of whiskey or something. No, you know, I really do think that is one of the super valuable elements to, you know, what makes this industry really special is exactly that. It’s being able to, you know, kind of ask the questions and ask it in a safe place. I know that sounds silly to say, but I think, you know, not to toot your horn too much for you, but I think that is one of the things that makes you really special, sir, is that genuineness and,

You know, I think a lot of how you do it is through things like self [00:34:00] deprecating humor and that. But it really does, it sets a different tone with your audience. You know, I love going to these conferences where you see the same, no offense, I’m gonna say it bluntly, like washed up, speaker over and over again, there’s some motivational speaker.

They give me some talk and I love to hear the stories from people whose net worth is in the, you know, far more digits than I’ll ever make in my entire life, telling me how they’re connecting with me and I’m like, Oh yeah, We have the same problems.

James Burke-Frazier: I myself have written a multi-billion dollar making book about how I came from nothing. And so now I can’t wait for him to tell me how to be more innovative.

Josh DeTar: Yes. Yes.

James Burke-Frazier: So I was going to say, I

Josh DeTar: me So.

James Burke-Frazier: Yeah, go hit me. I was going to

Josh DeTar: Oh, no, I was

James Burke-Frazier: I want to ask you guys.

Josh DeTar: Think that’s what makes you really special, it’s kind of a barrier for people where they’re ah, you know what? He’s just another real dude. Like, he’s just another person. He’s just another human trying to make his way and figure [00:35:00] this out.

And he’s not on some pedestal where he has all the answers. And it’s, you know, my privilege to get to ask him for his answers. It’s more so, like, Hey, I am a part of this day in and day out and I truly care about the outcomes. So I genuinely am looking for the questions and then I’m genuinely looking to find answers that will provide value back to the industry I care about and I think that’s special

James Burke-Frazier: So for conferences, sometimes I’ll do stump the chump where I actually open up the mic and, they can just ask me random questions and I’ll get you 70%. I don’t know, but I feel like even that’s important. Cause I feel like a lot of the developers out in credit union land are probably more like me than,

young, you know, there are a lot of young, excited, tech-forward people, but a lot of us have stumbled into technology for credit unions. I know a lot of credit union people that came from the branches from operations, people that have, showed, a passionate connection with the scimitar database, and now they’ve [00:36:00] become now there are I.T. Operators or I. T. Business analysts. So yes, there are a lot of people who have computer science backgrounds who have formal development backgrounds. Absolutely. And they’re doing amazing things. But there are a lot of also old dogs or people like myself who have pivoted from other industries. And so sometimes listening and talking to somebody who’s, can explain to you saying, Hey, just because you don’t have a PhD on data science, doesn’t understand that, you know, doesn’t mean you can’t look at your database and say, Hey, why can’t I get everyone’s email address?

Right? I mean, there’s ways around that. And I feel like, Having that type of collaborative meetings, that’s what I look back to the comment about conference. I look for that chance to actually have a conference who cares about getting collaborations and opportunities for us just to organically talk to each other.

I don’t want to be programmed every hour on the hour, go in there and read another PowerPoint presentation. Again, I could do that remotely at home. I want access to sit down and talk to clients. I want to be able to ask [00:37:00] questions. I want to be able to ask. questions of me, and I think that’s what sets good conferences apart for me.

And fortunately we have a lot of those in the credit union cycle. I mean, whether it’s the SIM User Cycles, the semi, SIM Central SIM West, I think some of the Kunitech Conferences allow pretty good access. They do have some breakouts in there that allow you to actually go in and follow up on good questions.

And so that type of cycle of conferences for me really make a difference.

Josh DeTar: So I, you know, I have to ask then,  

What are the questions that you feel like are getting asked a lot lately? Like, what seems to be top of mind for folks from your seat?

James Burke-Frazier: Well, there’s staffing, of course, just where do I find people to hire? And that’s never,it’s never stopped, but it’s changed because as the tech stacks get a little more complicated, whether it’s business, you know, whether it’s digital platforms for your digital providers, whether it’s your core platforms getting more and more digital adjacent, there’s a generic question of how do I [00:38:00] hire people or how do I train my existing staffon new tech stacks. 

So I’m a classic programmer. I learned power on from a book and power on is the, you know, the architecture that of old school, you know, core programming and, the fact for someone old school like me had to learn HTML5 JavaScript and CSS is frightening. It’s just frightening, you know, I still have problems with JavaScript after all these years.

I’m like, something is equal to something but something is equal to something and then something is equal to something That’s just intellectually lazy as a designer of a program, right? An equal sign should just mean something. Three equal signs in a row means something different than one equal sign. Laziness.

And so it’s just hard for me to grasp some of that stuff. So when I get calls from it development teams and stuff saying, Hey, how do I, how do we encourage people, to learn new technologies on the [00:39:00] job? Right. Let’s say they’re already good at their job, but now they need to learn a new technology.

That’s one of the questions I got.

AI is coming up. I am, I’m trying to learn it and I’m not learning very well. I think it’s old synapses. I think too many smoked chocolates in the air, maybe. I don’t know. there’s plaque, you know, across my synapses, so it’s not sticking very well.

I’m just now starting to understand how it’s going to selfishly help me, but that doesn’t mean I can understand how it’s going to selfishly help my role and my company and members yet. Right? If I can’t understand how I can consume it, how am I going to visualize how other people are going to, you know, create value out of it?

Josh DeTar: On that one real actually, if you don’t mind? Cause I think that this is a really big topic right now. And what I find really interesting about it is. There’s a couple of layers to this For starters, we’ve joked about it many times and I laugh and say we should rebrand as [00:40:00] Tyfone.ai cause it’ll double sales overnight,

James Burke-Frazier: God. Wow. These cutting edge.

Josh DeTar: How many companies have just added like dot AI at the end or how…

James Burke-Frazier: Yeah. What’s dot IO two? I think they’re cheating now.

Josh DeTar: yeah, trying to be techie, right? So I think there’s a lot of people that can say, well, you know, we used AI to help write our company mission statement. So we’re totally an AI company, right?

Like, I mean, so I think that’s what I’m getting at, is the kind of the crux of the problem is there’s so many different use cases, and examples of what AI means. And that’s been really confusing, you know, I won’t name any names, but, it was actually a really awesome conversation I had with one of the CEOs of one of our credit unions.

And, you know, he and I met up at a conference and one of the things I love to do at conferences is I love to walk the show floor with credit unions and be like, what are you looking at? What’s interesting. And the CEO made the comment to me. He said, So for this next year, we [00:41:00] have an AI strategy and that is a part of our strategic mission.

I was like, awesome. Tell me what is it? And he goes, no, our strategy is AI. We’re going to use more. And I was like, that’s not a strategy. I love you to death. That’s not a strategy. Like, what does that mean?

That’s like going to a buffet and deciding, I’m gonna go back. I’d like another, please.

Josh DeTar: Yeah, it’s like there’s so many options and flavors to that. So what are you actually going to use? How are you going to implement it? What are the metrics of success of that? And how are you going to evaluate it? And ultimately it led us to a really fascinating conversation about, okay, what are the problems you’re actually trying to solve?

And then does AI solve those and then how, and then what’s the process look like to integrate that into that strategic planning,

James Burke-Frazier: Yeah. So when I think of AI, of course, the early table stakes is chat. And when I think of chat, I think of me yelling the word agent over until someone hands me a life person. So I realized that’s one end of the spectrum. And I [00:42:00] realized over here on the other end of the bell curve is genius.

So I just haven’t figured out how I go from JBF yelling agent until I can finally get the airline person on the call to help me versus something over here happens and AI is cost-effective and makes my margin better, right? I know it gets there. I just haven’t run across it myself and I think that’s because I haven’t consumed it enough myself to understand where it can impact all of the, the bottom line of financial institutions.

Josh DeTar: Yeah, I, you know, again, I think this comes back to use cases, right? And this is one of the things that I just personally, I love to kind of introduce into all of my conversations with people is, you know, what’s the use case and what’s the objective you’re trying to actually solve? And then how do you define success out of that?

Right? And so again, that comes back to, so what are all the different use cases that you have for AI? And it’s really when the question comes up of, you know, what do you [00:43:00] know about AI or what do you think about AI or how should my credit union be using AI? The question for me first is just what are you trying to solve, right?

Because there’s so many different low-hanging fruit elements. You know, personally, I think I’ll say it right here. Like if you’re not using ChatGPT to help with some of just your operational tasks, you’re missing out. I mean, literally the other day, this was last Friday. No kidding, JBF, I was working on something that I needed to get done before the weekend because I had to get it out to the team.

It was an update on some things that were happening, but it was kind of an outside process and you know, I just needed to type all of this up and I was like, I mean, this is going to take me an hour plus easily to put all this together. So I went over to ChatGPT, I gave it my criteria. I said, this is what I need.

it spit it out and it was so good it had even thought of a few things that I hadn’t thought of. I augmented it, changed it slightly to be a little bit in my voice because it was going to internal team members.

James Burke-Frazier: Sure, yeah, tone [00:44:00] and tenor.

Josh DeTar: Yeah, exactly.

James Burke-Frazier: You can’t expect ChatGPT to give you tone and tenor. No.

Josh DeTar: And it was phenomenal, right?

And the whole process took me a total of seven minutes. So the thing that I really, you know, highlighted about this was quite literally what that did. That was the last thing I needed to do for the day. And it either meant that I needed to work through that and my wife had to cook dinner by herself and we were probably going to have dinner late, but ChatGPT meant that I got to help with dinner and we had dinner on time, right?

So like, that’s a really clear example of how it had a phenomenal positive impact, but you can’t just say like, we’re just going to use ChatGPT more. Right? That’s not an answer. It’s how are you going to use it? What are you going to use it for? And then, you know, again, you know, how do you measure the success out of that.

James Burke-Frazier: Yeah, that’s, we’re just gonna have more of our members use the digital channel. Yeah. Scene. Right. And we’ll be more profitable then. And there we go. [00:45:00] That’s my strategy. You know, I mean, yeah, so I’ve actually been looking at it from, So taking a look at it, having it reconsume, you know, my JavaScript is weak.

My JavaScript mojo is very weak. And so I’ve been using it for, you know, bits and pieces of taking a look at it. The way that I’m doing it, is it the most efficient way? You know, am I, you know, is there any way that I’m keeping track of my variables? It’s like that. You know, I, it’s not as good as if I could just hand it to Josh, the JavaScript genius and have Josh give me back, you know, you’re going to coach me back knowing the end user, right?

This is an old dog. I have to be careful on my tone and tenor with him or I’ll scare him away from JavaScript, right? I’m not getting that back from that. So I do feel like, it creates value, but as a connector, as a person who gets organic interactivity, it’s not the same, right? As if I could call up the coworker, who’s also really good at JavaScript and say, [00:46:00] I’m calling in that favor.

Remember when I bought you lunch? Okay, here we go. Let’s walk through this. You know, I’m going to get more, but that does cost, that’s an opportunity cost of me, that person’s time and I have to align our schedules. So I just need to figure out to be more comfortable on using, on, on, on using AI to facilitate tasks for me or to give me feedback where I’m, you know, not feeling like , someone’s cut and pasting something from a book I probably should have read and that’s why I didn’t know the answer.

Right. And so it’s a perception issue, I think, with me, but I do. I think a lot more people are probably like me, and they’re concerned about consuming AI then probably like yourself, who’s, you know, probably have good use cases, good, selfish use cases, you know, anything that saves me 53 minutes, I’d do that in a heartbeat, but you know, I don’t have those yet.

And so I don’t think it comes to mind as easy for me because I’ve not had the personal impactful use [00:47:00] cases for my own consumption so far.

Josh DeTar: Well, I think a part of that too is that, you know, like anything else, right? It’s understanding what it can and can’t do, and helping to identify those use cases. Right. And if you think about something like was used, you know, ChatGPT is the example, right? A lot of what the beauty of that AI is access to exponentially more data and history than anyone is going to have here.

James Burke-Frazier: Sure.

Josh DeTar: and the ability to call it in a conversational manner. Right? So I’ll give you a great example of this. So our CEO, Siva, uses the snot out of it and he uses it for all sorts of stuff. And he’s always coming to me with these new use cases. And, you know, recently he had to like take his daughter’s car to, the Oregon, DEQ or the like office.

Right? And, Siva, you know, I love the man to death. He’s arguably one of the smartest people on the planet that I know. He’s just not a car guy. This is not his thing. He’s smart in other areas. And he was like, I needed to [00:48:00] plug something into the OBD2 sensor of the car. And he’s like, I couldn’t find this thing.

I don’t know what it looks like. And he goes, so I went to Google and I kept typing in, you know, the exact make and model of the car, show me videos, all of this, he’d find a video on YouTube. And it was like a different model and it was in a place and he fought with it forever. Still couldn’t figure it out.

He goes, I’m curious what ChatGPT will say. So he goes to ChatGPT and he says, he talks like a human. He just says, Hey, look, I’m trying to find, you know, this OBD2 port for this make model and car and give me step by step instructions on how to find this stupid thing and ChatGPT literally first go around says, okay, sit down in the driver’s seat.

Now use your left hand. Reach below the, you know, the headlight switch about three inches. And then over to the right, you’ll feel a prong that has 12, you know, it’s like prescriptive and talking to him like a person would talk to that really knew [00:49:00] what they were talking about, right?

And so it’s really, when you think about kind of AI, it’s the access to and the ability to crunch and simplify larger volumes of data. Then, you know, the human brain is going to be able to comprehend. And I think kind of using that as a little bit of the guiding light, especially for simpletons like myself, of what are the use cases that I could actually use something like this for?

And then you can start to really extrapolate it out to, okay, so if we were to have a, you know, quote unquote AI strategy around, you know, our database, like what could it do? What are my pain points there? What are my use cases? And then how could the applications help solve for those? That’s where it gets really

James Burke-Frazier: How do you see, credit unions being able to consume it with the concept of intellectual property boundaries of whether or not they have all these vendor contracts, you know, with all these, that have different, interpretation rules of how their stuff could go? Is it, you think people are going to start having their own independent sandboxes of AI?

The [00:50:00] framework is there, but the information that they add to the existing model can’t go into the wild, that’s the stuff that I see that some credit unions are struggling with right now is that they don’t know the rules around how they can put in content. Let’s say, yeah, they’re, they got Tyfone, they got Jack Henry, doesn’t matter, you know, I’m going to put in, My entire release notes, and then it’ll let me know things.

Well, yeah, but if you take a look at the fine print, some of those things say, well, you know, you can’t share release notes with somebody who’s also not a consumer, or has a contract with fill in the blank. So I think that as more stuff comes out on that type of consumption, I could see start credit unions going out there.

Now I know tons of credit unions are already out there leading this. They had some really interesting examples. In fact, even at CU Build this year, we had actually, some AI consumption for some of the Solutions at, CU Build, but they were, you know, they, you know, these [00:51:00] are 32, you know, 36 hour, you know, skunk work projects.

Of course, you know, they wanted it to create a website for him. So they told the AI to create a website for this thing for them. It was amazing. But, I think though credit unions have always been willing to push the boundaries on technology, but have always been contract aware about where the inherent risks are.

And so I think that’s still one of the things that’s keeping credit unions from, putting in a lot of their own content right now, because they’re not sure how that works in the scheme of things from an intellectual property legal standpoint.

Josh DeTar: Man, I’m so glad you brought that up. That’s a really fascinating concept of, you know, a lot of what makes our industry one that people can trust, which is very important in our industry is the safeguards that are in place, right? There are the regulations and the rules and compliance and all that go into ensuring that, you know, this is a safe institution to put, you know, that whole thing called your entire life savings or whatever it may be [00:52:00] into it.

Right, but it’s coupled with being met with, you know, this force of ridiculously fast innovation. And it’s almost like that, you know, immovable object meets an unstoppable force. and how do you reconcile those things? And I think, you know, that is a really big problem for, you know, specifically the community financial institution space is how do we leverage, adapt, to these, you know, new AI tools and still maintain regulatory compliance.

And at the same time where the regulatory, you know, framework may not even exist. They don’t even know, They don’t have guidance

James Burke-Frazier: different where Bitcoin was, where there was a group of people already Bitcoining, you could buy a pizza with a Bitcoin, but as a regulatory concept is a fiduciary product. It didn’t even exist on anyone’s radar, but Josh was buying pizza with Bitcoin already, right?

I mean, it’s like, you know, there’s a, there’s this lag that, and in that window of lag is [00:53:00] both opportunity and risk,

Josh DeTar: Yeah, totally. Well, and to your point, right? Like one of the big ones for financial institutions is PII or Personal Identifiable Information, right? And how do you both leverage that data without risking? You know, all the bad stuff that comes along with misuse of right? Whether intentional or unintentional.

James Burke-Frazier: Because ChatGPT or other AI systems require understanding of the secret sauce to create value, but exposing secret sauce in itself creates possibly inherent risks downstream that you may not yourself even know, because how much do you know about that next layer of that information and how it’s going to be consumed by other people?

Josh DeTar: Dude. Yeah, exactly. Well, and so, you know, that leads to kind of the next problem for, you know, community financial institutions leveraging this is why does ChatGPT work so well? It’s the volume of data that’s fed into it, right? I’m going to say this with all due respect. If you’re a [00:54:00] 500 million credit union, if you’re a 2-billion credit union, hell, if you’re a 10-billion credit union.

You don’t have enough data. I’m sorry. You just don’t. It’s a small sample size in the grand scheme of things. It’s a small sample size. Sure. It’s a hundred.

James Burke-Frazier: You know how you’re acted, right? But you can’t generically say, and that’s funny. I have one last question selfishly for you. When I think of you, I feel you’re a younger person than probably you are. So I see a lot of digital banking questions out there about how people consume technology, and so I’ve always wanted to do this one.

Do you believe you fit in the mold of how you consume banking technology as you would be put in your age group by a generic bubble? ‘Cause I am over, I am 54. I’ve got a face of a 90 year old. I am 54. I don’t believe I consume banking technology is a 54 year old, right? I feel like my Venn [00:55:00] diagram is over, but you know, but somewhere someone out there tells me that’s how 54 year olds should probably act like this.

So for yourself, do you consider yourself, in the Venn or outside the Venn of where you would fit if we were to throw you with all banking persons of this person’s age would consume technology fill in the blank.

Josh DeTar: Yeah. I mean, so the problem with that is that I work for a technology company for financial institutions. So I think that skews my data slightly. Cause I don’t know how I would quite interact if I wasn’t a part of the industry. You know, what’s fascinating is we actually did some research, earlier this year, it’s just kind of the personas of how people, you know, leverage their financial institution for products and services that are available and their propensity to tech.

And I use propensity as a very important word. I don’t say their ability or desire. Right? Because they may have the ability, but their desire may be low, or [00:56:00] their desire may be high, but their ability may be low. Right? So just their propensity to actually utilize the technology. And if you plot that out on a graph where, you know, one is the X and one is the Y

and we look at where people fall in terms of, you know, how close to you as their primary financial institution are they versus, you know, are they a single product? Are they a, you know, an indirect auto loan, or, you know, a single savings account, or, is their entire financial life with you?

Right. And if you kind of look at that, what I find interesting is if you really look at that data, if you look at it in individual institution, it may vary somewhat, but if you look at it across global data, it’s all over the place.

Josh DeTar: Right. You have four-year-olds.

James Burke-Frazier: The larger the sample you have, and I think that’s some of the issues that I have with credit unions in general, and it’s not necessarily issue. I think it’s one of the challenges that I see them and one of the issues that they address is [00:57:00] they do perceive the member data they have determines how the members, the next member of that group will act.

And that’s a small data set. You know, I mean, that’s, I mean, it gives you an idea of risk performance. Maybe it’ll give you the margins, but I can’t say because I have 3,200 members in this age group that my 3,200 and first member is going to want exactly the product mix and interact with the banking the same way, right?

It’s not, I think the propensity, you know, your examples are spot on in the fact that it gives us some insight, but shouldn’t allow us to create too thick of lines. On how we would put people in, in buckets.

Josh DeTar: I wanna give you an example that I absolutely love. So it’s an example from World War II and in World War II, they would have all of these bombers that kept getting shot down. And so the military said, we need to up armor these [00:58:00] planes to make sure that they don’t get shot down. So what they did was they analyzed

a bunch of planes that came home and they looked at where they were getting hit. They looked at all the bullet holes and they said, reinforce those areas. Nothing changed. Planes kept shot down. Somebody came back to them and said, well, it’s cause we’re looking at our data wrong. We’re looking at all the planes that came home and where they were shot, which tells us it’s okay to get shot there.

James Burke-Frazier: made those places heavier. Right.

Josh DeTar: Yep. And so we need to look at the areas where there are no bullet holes in the planes because that tells us no plane has come home after getting shot in that area. And let’s up armor those areas. And what happened? They noticed a statistical difference in the number of planes that were shot down, right?

And I think that’s exactly what you’re talking about here. Is if we say, Hey, I want to look at all of my entire current member base and I’m going to continue to do everything [00:59:00] I can to make sure that I’m, you know, attracting members like them, but instead there’s a huge group of people that almost became a member your credit union and didn’t.

So why didn’t they, and how can they?

James Burke-Frazier: you serve them the Sesame street. One of these things are not like the other, You know what I mean? It’s like, if you’re only looking to get what you got. Then do what you’re doing.

Josh DeTar: Do what you’re doing.

James Burke-Frazier: Right? And so, I love that analogy. I like that, that, the World War II piece. That’s a good one.

Josh DeTar: Well, and I think that, too, goes back to what we were just talking about, right of so that is the problem with and that’s where we say with all due respect that you know, your one single institution probably doesn’t have enough data because again, you’re only looking at your own data. What are you doing in terms of pure benchmarking?

What are you to look at what others are doing, why are people using other services or, you know, what other services are they consuming, they’re not consuming from or how are they interacting with [01:00:00] platforms that are not yours, et cetera. And, you know, I think that’s comes back to, you know, kind of the holy grail is the ability to have, you know, some shared data lake, some protected data, some

James Burke-Frazier: Scrub PII and just get it there to get to work. Yeah.

Josh DeTar: Then the ability to actually run, you know, AI analytics across that larger subset of data and being able to then benchmark your data against the larger groups data, there’s significant power in that.

James Burke-Frazier: Oh, agreed. God, that’d be cool.

Josh DeTar: I cut you off…

James Burke-Frazier: No.

Josh DeTar: about AI, but what are some of the other things that you’re hearing people ask questions around?

Like what have been some of your recent topics of conversation at conferences and

James Burke-Frazier: Most recent, you know, it’s interesting. We have credit unions that are talking about, you know, a tablet strategy. But I come back to the tablet strategy, kind of like your AI strategy. It’s like they says, we know we want to do something that [01:01:00] allow our members when they do come into the branch to interact with a tablet to do

stuff. And I’m like, it’s the stuff. I feel like everything you were saying up to the word stuff, you have me. You have me. I’m engaged with everything you said. But it’s the concept of, you know, creating a tablet strategy is like having an AI strategy, you know, so I, I think organizationally, we have a lot of credit unions reaching out kind of say, Well, hey, what can we do with this?

And that I think that, you know, it’s going to be, I use the three-legged stool analogy again. You know, you got to have a couple of use cases that are strong enough that makes it worth the juices worth the squeeze to do that work. That’s some of the odd facilitation discussions we’ve been having.

Fraud is huge, you know, Zelle fraud, send and receive is right now. I know there’s some upcoming changes related to wanting to split the inherent risk between the receiving and sending financial [01:02:00] institutions. You know, there’s that discussion coming out. Credit unions are always like, ah, you know, what’s that mean?

And then, you know, I’d be surprised, rewards. You know what I mean? You come back to royalty and rewards and I feel like it’s a cyclic. We had no CDs, now we have high CDs. Now we got rid of rewards. Oh no, we want to run a rewards program now. So I think it’s the chase. I think financial institutions are trying to make sure they find a way that they’re, find a way to become top of wallet rewards and loyalty is one of those things.

I think one of the challenges that I see is how do we make it enterprise wide? Anyone can throw together a checking account where if you do these seven things, I’m going to give you a little something on the side. That’s table stakes now. I want my card channel to come in. I want digital platform usage to come in.

I want to know in branch transactions. I want all that stuff to scrub together and say, Josh is this member in this bucket and I recognize [01:03:00] Josh’s usage of us. So I’m going to give him the things and give him access to ways that he feels that is being rewarded. So if Josh is, I want cash back in cash back, if he wants points.

If he wants, a hot 0. 25 on a CD, let’s do that. If he wants 0. 25 down on his loan, let’s do that. You know, I mean, that type of holistic recognizing the member as the member. It’s hard, you know, I mean, it’s difficult as a platform, I, but it’s a big push right now because I feel like some of back, God, it feels like we’ve been talking this long, just like you said. Just like we’re being compared to Apple and Amazon for our digital platforms.

We’re being not necessarily, compared to the community bank across the street for our rewards program. They’re comparing us to Airline Rewards. They’re comparing us to Apple Rewards. They’re comparing us to any place that has a rewards program. Your financial institution is compared to them on how [01:04:00] they make the member feel being rewarded.

And that’s a challenge, right? That’s a whole new ballgame. You know, how do you, how do you act as big as those big actors do? And so I think that’s one of the challenges I’ve been seeing from credit unions lately is, how do we do an enterprise level rewards program that’s relevant?

Josh DeTar: Hmm. That’s interesting. you know, I think, a, it’s kind of a fun topic because, you know, people are funny creatures

James Burke-Frazier: Yeah.

Josh DeTar: You know, what may motivate me may be totally different than what actually motivates you. And how do you capture that in a way that incentivizes the behavior that you really want to encourage people to do?

James Burke-Frazier: Right. Well, and we’ll take away that side and we’ll pull back the curtain and say, in a way that actually is fiscally sustainable so that the financial institution can maintain it, right? Because, you know, a lot of people rushed out a lot of rewards real quick, but with interchange drops, they just pulled the rewards programs, right?

So they, if they didn’t, if they couldn’t give you enough cash back, [01:05:00] they felt like it was better not to do the rewards program than to give you cash back that felt less than what’s being advertised on TV.

Josh DeTar: Yeah.

James Burke-Frazier: So they snap back the other direction. And so I think a lot of financial institutions are thinking about how they get back out there, get back up, you know, back up on the horse of rewards.

But how do they do it so there’s actually, room and margin to, not to unring the bell again, right? Because, I mean, how many times can you roll something out and then pull it back? Eventually your members aren’t gonna, aren’t gonna respond to that. Yeah,

Josh DeTar: really good point to bring up. I always

James Burke-Frazier: Well, if you ever want to do a podcast on rewards, you just let me know. We should do a, but we should do a panel.

So I have a lot less to do. Yes,

Josh DeTar: Come on. Ha ha ha ha. No, you know, that’s a really good point. You know, I make the joke in demos all the time that like, one of the things that people can do in our platform is, you know, set up alerts that are, you know, [01:06:00] triggers based on different things.

And so, you know, a member can set up an alert to say, you know, if ABC credit union offers a CD with 25%, notify me cause I’ll move all my money over. And, if you do, please notify me and I will move all my money over. Right. So like really easily say, Hey, we’re going to offer 50 percent cash back.

And you get a ton of business, but you go out of business very quickly, right? So there’s a balance. And I think what makes that extra challenging is, you know, right now we’re in a compressed margin state more so than we’ve been in a very

James Burke-Frazier: Long time. Yeah.

Josh DeTar: Our cost of funds is high, you know, interest rates are super high.

Loans are down. So we’re trying to find ways to bring about 

James Burke-Frazier: revenue and margins

Collections is still a challenge. You know, we’re seeing delinquencies go up, at a little higher rate than we’ve been used to seeing. So I think that really also, you know, operating expenses, you know, is just tough right now. So it’s hard. So I think [01:07:00] organizationally people are starting to think about it, but they’re not necessarily ready to design it themselves because they need to see some consistency and how the market’s going to go.

But I believe the tech stack is getting there ready to be able to do and more of an enterprise related solution. It’s just now we need to be creative on how we incentivize positive, function usage, right? I’m going to need you to have 12 point of sales. Oh, you had 11.

You get nothing. You know what I mean? That’s type of, that’s, you know, that’s that again, there, that may work for financial institution across the street, but if I’m comparing it to the rewards programs that we’re being compared to nowadays, that won’t fly.

Josh DeTar: Yeah, and you know, this goes back to, you know, what you were just saying is you also have to be prepared to move at a speed to adapt to those quick changes, right? I mean, I just look at the last four years, man I mean how many times if we like swung the pendulum [01:08:00] Exponentially in that time frame.

I mean, I remember when people were like, oh gosh for the love of all things Holy, I cannot take another deposit like please got something about all these deposits and now they’re like OMG, give me all your deposits right. So that environment changes so much and nobody’s ever going to have a crystal ball.

You’re never going to.

James Burke-Frazier: I had credit unions call me cause they had not created a new certificate product in four to five years. And they’d forgotten how to go through and create tiered pricing certificates. I mean, they’d done it in the past, right? But tribal knowledge comes, they haven’t done it. Maybe they don’t have great documentation, but no one had anticipated that, you know, I’m seeing 5 percent CDs.

I mean, I can drive down the street now and just see 5 percent and I’m like, that’s higher than what my first mortgage was. You know what I mean? So that’s like a boy. I wish I, you know, I guess I should have bought that CD and hold off on this [01:09:00] house. So yeah,

Josh DeTar: Yeah. But like you were saying, then the requirement becomes that you’ve got to have a technology infrastructure to be able to meet those, right? All of sudden this crazy rate environment changes. And you’ve all of a sudden got to start offering really sophisticated programs around CDs and like you were saying, right, like offering tiered solutions, but what if the technology that you leverage doesn’t offer that right?

Well, now you’re in an even worse position. So, you know, it’s important to have the technology aspect lined up. To be able to, you know, support changing environments, changing roadmaps. And, you know, I think that’s a lot of the pedigree that makes the technology providers that you rely on great or not so great is, you know, here, actually we’ll have a little fun with this one.

I’ll make

James Burke-Frazier: Sure.

Josh DeTar: bold statement

James Burke-Frazier: Hit 

Josh DeTar: like to make. I love when I get asked, and I have been, JBF, on an RFP from a community financial institution [01:10:00] that they want to see a 10 year roadmap and have us commit to it. Like no, I’m a technology company. If I can tell you what I’m going to do in 10 years, it probably just means I suck so bad at building things.

It’s going to take me 10 years to build the thing. I probably should have built in six months, right?

James Burke-Frazier: I mean, Yeah, I mean, sad,

Josh DeTar: be able, need to have a long-term vision, right? We to have a long-term vision, but how that gets executed in the granular details of that has got to be able to change,

James Burke-Frazier: Six, six month roadmaps now feel like, I’m putting a lot of eggs in a basket. I mean, because the fact that from a competition standpoint, from a sophomore development standpoint, and from a compliance and regulatory standpoint, which then comes in and trumps. What I hope to accomplish, right? But if something comes down and says, Hey, by the way, you’re now required to do this, right?

Then back to opportunity cost, which of these great ideas [01:11:00] that four months ago I promised I’d have done in six months, am I going to table to do because I have to do these things. And so, yeah, I mean, I think your 10 year roadmap is, as a financial institution, as a software company, as whatever I plan to be relevant and growing, and then use a font that really shows that you care

Josh DeTar: And ai.

James Burke-Frazier: and dot ai.

I yeah, no, just this statement was written by right? I mean, that’s it. So don’t worry every month our AI is writing out our 10 year plan, 10 years from now. So, it’s taken care of.

Josh DeTar: Scott. We got that. You know, speaking of just kind of how, the collaborative side of looking at how to, how does technology need to evolve to help the relevancy of financial institutions? You know, you referenced earlier, some of the different ways that, you know, you personally and Jack Henry, you know, help to [01:12:00] facilitate and collaborate in those types of events.

You know, you referenced CU Build and, I was super fortunate to have had, Brad Hickey from, American Airlines

James Burke-Frazier: That was a good, that was a good interview by the way.

Josh DeTar: On the podcast to talk about CU Build. But, you know, was talking about it more so from the credit union side of things. I’d love to kind of hear your perspective on the technologists side of things.

Like how do those events help to, you know, kind of further and just make, like you said, I mean, it’s a 36 hour like build-a-thon, right? So how in that time period do you use potentially catapult a roadmap item?

James Burke-Frazier: Yeah. So six months, at least, before then the tech stacks being built. And so, you know, Jack Henry is the common bond where the, you know, we’re, a main pipe on the tech stack, but the community group, you know, the CU build, organization, they bring in lots of vendors to go through and then share in that tech stack.

So what’s exciting about for us is that we get to see [01:13:00] organically given a clean sandbox of with Jack Henry is the common bond host software. What do you build right? And so like this last year’s we had some amazing pieces. We had. Everything from AI to some financial counseling in the moment. We had some, some fee pieces, but on the way of, you know, how to return fees in a more dynamic and fair way.

All the way down to the winning one, which was really about. Taking the concept of youth accounts, which in my day, youth accounts was, here’s your ugly backpack with your credit union logo on it. Thank you for opening up your lemonade stand money. You’re earning nothing on it, right? But we plan on giving you a car loan 12 years from now.

So stay tuned, right?

Josh DeTar: So stay tuned.

James Burke-Frazier: That was the concept of a youth account at the credit union. I started with, but the concept is now it’s like digital [01:14:00] forward, getting your parents to actually set, you know, helping you with savings goals, creating interactivity for those persons to understand financial literacy and training and good stewardship of money.

And so, yeah. The people who teach you how to be a good financial steward as the person you’re going to go to when I need a car loan, or I need a home loan, a hundred percent guaranteed. If you’re still able to connect with that person who made you feel like you were financially aware, I just feel like that piece.

And so the concept of creating all those available vendors into that tech stack is an awful lot of work, but we get an awful lot out of it as a way to see people hitting our systems and utilizing them in a very creative way. And so, you know, CU Build is our community build a thon. That, you know, we’re again, we help facilitate, but we had team members there.

So we’re able to actually, send staff members and actually [01:15:00] randomly put them on teams. And that was a lot of fun. I talked to our team members that were there and they were just like. Amazed. They just got into it so much working alongside credit unions, rolling up their sleeves. I have so much FOMO.

I, if I thought I could get away with it, if I thought I could get away with just, you know, this is Bame’s Jaser. And he’s going to join, one of the teams, right. And just show up, I’m on a team. If I could get away with it, I do it. They’d never let me do it, but I just, it just, there’s just something, chemistry wise in that environment.

So, but you know, from a concept of bill of funds, you know, Jack Henry is a company, we have our bill of fund. We have some internal ones within various departments. Do you guys, from a facilitation standpoint. Does your organization, tie into some types of build a thon, some types of hack a thon, some types of community, growth type of software development pieces?

Josh DeTar: Yeah, we do [01:16:00] internally, but you know, we haven’t done, we’ve been to CU Build now twice. And I think Brad will personally take me out to a field in Dallas somewhere and beat me with a sack of potatoes if we don’t do a little bit more participation next year. But, yes,

James Burke-Frazier: all about your tech stack. Get your tech stack out there. I look forward to it.

Josh DeTar: Yeah. You know, I really appreciate that you brought up the youth side of things too.

We don’t have enough time left in a day to get on that soapbox of mine,

James Burke-Frazier: I love it. Oh.

Josh DeTar: Just, I think that is such a colossal missed opportunity. You know, I had a guest on the podcast. This has not, it’ll be released by the time this episode gets released. But I had a gentleman, David Dindy from Atomic Invest on.

James Burke-Frazier: Atomic. Yeah. a chance to spend time at their booth this last

Josh DeTar: Oh, really what they’re doing is super rad, but I think more than anything, what really. This has stuck with me, JBF, like he made a comment and I actually was just reviewing his podcast assets the other day and I saw this line [01:17:00] in it and I was like, man, I have to commit this one to memory because I’m going to be honest, this is really powerful stuff and this speaks to why I give a crap and why I wake up every morning.

And he made the comment, he said, you know, if poverty lasts more than a generation, we as a society have done a disservice,

James Burke-Frazier: Yeah.

Josh DeTar: Right? It’s there’s so many opportunities for education, for technology and for people to step in and help end poverty at a generation. Right? How many families have stayed in poverty simply because they have not been given the education, the tools, the opportunities, and just about all of that is solvable.

In one way or another, and that’s a lot of what you see credit unions doing time and time again. You know, you and I talked about this before the episode, right? Like this is a lot of our own personal stories, right? I was a moron who would have been in a really bad shape and I would have perpetuated a cycle of poverty if a credit union hadn’t stepped in and intervened, [01:18:00] right?

And so how do you do that at scale? And I think technology is a huge part of the answer to that question.

James Burke-Frazier: And again, my generation of how they would have stepped in versus, you know, in high school, we actually had a class on fiscal literacy. It was part of the chained into home-ec, you know, but that’s never happened nowadays, right? I mean, the whole concept is it’s not the same. And so technology and those people willing to lead in the community environments.

Our only hope of being able to attack financial literacy in any meaningful way, because the generation now that is consuming learning, the generation now that we can make some really good impact in have to be reached in a certain way that the old school, I’m going to take a, I’m going to take a class on how to be not an idiot with my money.

That’s never going to happen in school. It’s never going to be able to be consumed in a way that has a meaningful, impactful format. We can only [01:19:00] rely on community financial institutions, on vendors, on FinTechs that are willing to engage at a grasp level to help us. address that because the time of sitting down in front of a whiteboard to explain to them how to balance a checkbook has come and gone.

It’ll never align again with that type of learning cycle. So we need smart, innovative people to meet them where they will be and where they’re willing to learn. And that’s

Josh DeTar: Yes.

James Burke-Frazier: Right? That’s on the

Josh DeTar: Yes, dude. Seriously. Oh my gosh. I am so thankful for you saying that, you know, so. This goes back to what you were talking about earlier, too, in the sense that if you keep doing things the way you’ve always done them, you can expect to see the same results, right? And especially that has an impact when the world around you is changing and you continue to do things the way you’ve always done them.

I’ll give you a great example of this. You don’t know what one of the most searched for topics on TikTok [01:20:00] is?

James Burke-Frazier: Oh God, I can’t even imagine.

Josh DeTar: It’s finance and money.

James Burke-Frazier: Really?!

Josh DeTar: Seriously,

James Burke-Frazier: I would have thought dance moves.

Josh DeTar: I mean, there’s other garbage in there, but it’s up there. It ranks. So are looking to consume that content. Now, here’s the big problem with

James Burke-Frazier: People that you run there, the type, just because I have a high rating in TikTok, and just because people hand me money because I get a lot of views, doesn’t mean that person is fiscally sound to give you investment advice.

Josh DeTar: I love seeing, and I, people started sending me these now that they know I get really excited about these is I love seeing these different examples of these influencers who are giving you financial advice and I’m no, that’s actually terrible advice. No, that’s actually illegal. No, that’s not actually possible, but they’re so convicted,

they’re so charismatic about it. And they’re like, I drive a Bentley every day. And you can too. If all [01:21:00] you do is follow these simple steps that I have outlined for you. What if I’m an 18 year old kid, why would I not want to try that strategy? Right? If I have no good solid foundational backing for me to go, Oh no, you know what?

That guy’s actually an idiot and he’s just trying to get me to watch more of his so he can make more money. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Right. And so there’s a hunger for the content. Where people are going for it is different where they used to. And the problem is it’s so easy to put garbage content out and that is having, again, impact on that’s not setting people up for success.

So just so much opportunity in this area.

James Burke-Frazier: In fact, it’s actually the worst. So, the ability to make a swing and a miss at fiscal stability, in my opinion, doing it and then failing again, after you took the opportunity to say, I’m going to learn about finance, I’m going to try to become responsible, and you get bad [01:22:00] advice, and you take a hit and go down even farther, just makes it harder. To break even, you know, I mean, much less, advance, right? Just how do you break even? It’s like the whole concept. If you’re in a hole and you want to get out, stop digging first. Just stop digging, you know what I mean? And so I feel like, if you’re fishing on TikTok on average, maybe there’s some really gifted financial coaches out there on average, I feel like you’re just digging, you’re not looking so.

Josh DeTar: Yeah, I agree. Well, I mean, this just goes back to, this is why I really love to be able to have conversations with people like you. And this is why think that, you know, it’s so cool to have the different, you know, forums for us to do that. And a lot of that is, you know, things in person going to these conferences.

That’s where, you know. Going back to your, one of your first questions of me, like, you know, how do I decide? Look, I’m, again, I, you all know me well enough to know at this point. I’d like, I’d say [01:23:00] things pretty bluntly. I’m to come see you. I’m spending time away from my family and no offense, JBF.

I love you to death. I love my kid more.

James Burke-Frazier: saw your kid run by just

Josh DeTar: Yeah, he just, he chasing the garbage truck.

James Burke-Frazier: Iam delightful. I am not a fair trade. Absolutely not. You’re on the losing side of that trip.

Josh DeTar: But the yeah exactly that the is that if I’m gonna choose to be away from that, there’s got to be value in it this is the value that we get out of it. Right? Being able to have conversations with people where I see, you know what, there’s other people out there that are trying to make an impact so that we can do things like end generational poverty so that we can actually set people up for success.

Cause you know what? That may be my neighbor. That may be my son. That may be somebody else that’s close to me. Right? And so I think, you know, literally going all the way back to your intro. This is why we get excited. This is how you run around in, you know, high gear at all times at [01:24:00] all these conferences is being fueled by the knowledge that while what we do is a very small part of it, we’re helping enable an industry that is actually providing real true benefit and value and meaningful change to people’s lives, and that’s a pretty noble cause.

James Burke-Frazier: If there’s just something different about knowing that, I myself do not work for, you know, not for profit, but being able to help support not for profits to me means an awful lot. I, you know, I feel like that trade of time that I go through, you know, that I have to make a choice. I’m my weekend, I’m flying out on a Sunday night because I’ve got a Monday morning, something.

Yeah, I’m missing a Sunday night with the family, but you know what? At times, the impact is worth it and it makes it easier when you’re working on something that I’m again, financial literacy, you know, the credit union mission, I just, it’s just something I care about and I really just enjoy being around it and being able to help support it [01:25:00] however I can.

Josh DeTar: Well, if anybody listening is wondering why I made the comment at the beginning of a JBF’s intro about why I was so excited to have him on the podcast, there’s your answer right there

James Burke-Frazier: Geez, I thought it was you’re trying to talk me out of a free airline upgrade and

Josh DeTar: I mean,

James Burke-Frazier: set. set.

Josh DeTar: if you’re going to go on this whole humble brag thing,

James Burke-Frazier: No, I’m just saying I’m working on an app. I’m working an I’m working on an app called again. And everyone, please steal this app idea. I’d like to call it lounge moocher where I will check into various airport lounges. And then if anyone that I know happens to that, I could just, you know, we just moved in, but everyone has to,

all my friends have to check in when they’re at their lounges because, you know, There are sometimes I go through and it’s like I’m sitting in the lounge and I ABC sitting in Delta having an extra drink and I’m like, how come I can’t leave? Can I get in on that? Right? Can I get on that?

So I’m just saying, I think long term, [01:26:00] we should just hang out the Portland lounge one of these times and just not fly somewhere. That would be fine me. I guess that’s where I got through this whole thing is let me get on your calendar. We’ll meet at the lounge. We’ll say we’re going somewhere. And we’ll just hang out in the lounge all day and just come home early.

Josh DeTar: I mean, other than meeting at a conference or somehow lucking out and maybe that’s what we have to do is maybe we just have to at like the places we know we’ll both be at and be like, all right, I’m 10F. What are you? All right, let’s move.

James Burke-Frazier: I’m going to send you ahead of you ahead of time. We’ll take all, we’ll take rows. Well, and you know, you’re not necessarily flying, if two, two Tyfone and me in a row, then they can, no one, you know, if the three of us are in a row, it’s going to be,

Josh DeTar: Oh, I, no way. I, there’s no way I’m going to be in a row with Jason. Have you seen how tall that boy is?

James Burke-Frazier: He’s,

Josh DeTar: Yeah, take up the whole row. No,

James Burke-Frazier: seat material is

Josh DeTar: not middle seat material. Yeah. God did not build him for the middle seat.

James Burke-Frazier: He is not even in premium economy is [01:27:00] middle seat material.

Josh DeTar: Yeah. Yeah. Well, seriously, JBF. I can’t even begin to tell you how much I’ve appreciated you being a guest on

James Burke-Frazier: was fun. It was a good time.

Josh DeTar: Well, before I let you go, I have two final questions for

James Burke-Frazier: Sure. Okay.

Josh DeTar: first off, obviously, you know, you’ve talked about it a lot. You really care about learning so that you have some of the answers when people have questions for you.

So where do you go for information?

James Burke-Frazier: Ooh boy, I follow the trades, that’s between, you know, see you times, phenopotamus, a couple of places. I subscribe to some more generic, stuff. I do spend some time on Forbes cause I like to see, you know, more generic financial information, especially related to, you know, of all, you know, consumption of technology.

I like to read, to be honest, I still go out and chase down some of the technical, magazines. I know it sounds horrible, but if you find you’re on an Alaska Airlines and there is a rolled up, old [01:28:00] school, computer magazine still in the back of it. I may have been on a flight ahead of you.

Josh DeTar: You may have been in that seat. Yeah.

James Burke-Frazier: I may have read it and just left it there saying someone’s going to want to read this when inherently maybe I’m the only one that still reads those things. I don’t know,

Josh DeTar: Um, well if people want to, to short circuit that and just go straight to you for all the answers, how do they connect with you? How do they learn about Jack Henry and what you guys are doing 

James Burke-Frazier: Oh, well, yeah. So learning more about Jack Henry, of course, Jack Henry. com. But, you know, to be honest, you know, I enjoy your podcast. I enjoy your LinkedIn content and Tyfone’s content. I feel like a lot of people that may interact here, maybe people who development who do actually dev. So if you’re going to look at Jack Henry, the company, it’s JackHenry.com Tom. Sorry. JackHenry.com. There’s a lot of good stuff out there. I like JackHenry.dev, so if you’re a doodler or you’re looking to play and see what can happen, I think JackHenry.dev is actually a better place. Me, I’m on, better on LinkedIn. I think I need to do better. I [01:29:00] kind of treat it a little bit more like Facebook.

Probably should treat it more like a business,

Josh DeTar: That’s one of the reasons why I love your LinkedIn.

James Burke-Frazier: But, you know, yeah, you check me on LinkedIn. I actually, I don’t mind random people messaging me on LinkedIn. I’m happy to connect with people. I like to see what other people are doing. So, and then hopefully, you know, if you’re traveling, if you’re traveling in the user, client conference cycle, maybe I’ll get a chance to see people then, and then if we get a chance to meet face to face, that’s even better.

Cause I feel like once I meet someone face to face, like, like yourself, then I get a chance to connect in and then more stuff happens once I get a chance to meet people in person.

Josh DeTar: Yeah, I love that. Well, you’re hard to miss if you’re ever at a conference

James Burke-Frazier: I am loud.

Josh DeTar: And Mr. James Berk Frazier is there too, you will know.

James Burke-Frazier: That is

Josh DeTar: go look for him. Well, again, seriously, thank you so much. I’m truly humbled to have been able to have you as a guest. you know, he knows this, but for all of you, I mean, how many times have I asked you to be a guest?

James Burke-Frazier: It was four [01:30:00] five times, but I fought the first three where you were punking me. I, but only after I started listening to your podcast, then I’m like going. He actually has a podcast. So the first couple of times, the first call times,

Josh DeTar: say a bunch stuff put

James Burke-Frazier: You should meet on my podcast.

And then you’d send me a zoom call. And for all I know, it was just be me on the zoom call. But you actually, you’re legit. So then

Josh DeTar: I don’t know if I’d go that far

James Burke-Frazier: I was only, it was only one time after I believed you were actually really podcasting that you asked me. The first two, I just took it as you, you know, punking me.

Josh DeTar: just being, yeah, that’s fair. That’s fair. no, seriously. Thank you for being a guest. And honestly, thank you for being a guest on the first ever video Digital Banking Podcast

James Burke-Frazier: So, I apologize for people who had to watch this video. Just think you can always just listen to it without the video on.

Josh DeTar: It’s better if it is the face gestures. They add a lot.

James Burke-Frazier: Oh my God.

Josh DeTar: We talk a lot with our hands, right?

James Burke-Frazier: I’m surprised I didn’t knock myself [01:31:00] unconscious. Yes, that’s true. I’m a gesture. Just get it later.

Josh DeTar: Well, thank you, sir. Much appreciated. And I’ll see you on the next flight.

James Burke-Frazier: We’ll see you on the next flight. Thanks everyone.

Josh DeTar: Thanks, JBF.