[00:00:00] ​

[00:00:12] The Digital Banking Podcast is powered by tfo Tyfone is the creator of, an ally better digital banking platform for community financial institutions, as well as several platform-agnostic revenue-generating point solutions. Our highly configurable platform and broad ecosystem of third party partners ensure our entire suite is scalable and extensible to meet the needs of any FI.

[00:00:39] On our podcast, you will hear host Josh DeTar, discuss today’s most pressing financial technology topics with seasoned industry experts from every possible discipline.

[00:00:59]

[00:01:58] Josh DeTar: Welcome to another episode of the Digital Banking Podcast.

[00:02:02] Josh: My guest today is Katie DeFeo, the VP and Chief Experience Officer for Sunwest Credit Union. Okay, quick disclaimer for our listeners and watchers. This is not gonna be a podcast you’re gonna wanna listen to as you lay in bed and try and fall asleep.

[00:02:17] Josh: This is the one you start your day with. To say, Katie is a ball of energy is like saying the sun is, I don’t know, maybe just a slightly bigger double a battery. You know the saying, fortune favors the bold. I think it’s true in our personal lives, and I think it’s true in business as well. And Katie. Katie is bold.

[00:02:36] Josh: Katie is passionate, and Katie’s full of vision, and most importantly, she’s full of life energy and the willingness to do hard things and to take ideas through to reality. Ever since she was a little girl, Katie’s been competitive. Now, not necessarily just competitive with others. More so a competitiveness against herself, always trying to improve, always trying to be better than she was yesterday.

[00:03:02] Josh: Her whole life, she’s just had that challenger spirit, which she said is a nice way of putting it for her poor school teachers. As a kid, she said they would say, oh, she’s so kind and smart, but man, is she disruptive? No, it wasn’t her goal to be disruptive, but it was her goal to disrupt the status quo. It was her goal to challenge and to question everything and say, can this be better?

[00:03:28] Josh: Can this be done different? Can this have a more valuable impact for people always wanting to build up and support others and leave the world a better place? I’m super excited to have her tell her own story and her words of how she channeled this energy and this spitfire attitude into a super successful and rewarding career in the credit union space.

[00:03:52] Josh: Katie’s a firm believer that that’s how we’ve always done it are the most expensive words in business. And I think that’s a very powerful statement. She’s not afraid to grab a bull by the horns, roll up her sleeves and push her credit union and our industry to stand up, stand out, and to be, as she puts it, the besties of people’s financial lives and futures.

[00:04:15] Josh: Taking the human element and blending it with people, process, and tech to be better than we were yesterday. Katie, thanks for joining me. This is gonna be fun.

[00:04:25] Katie DeFeo: Yeah. Thanks for having me, Josh. I’m so excited.

[00:04:28] Josh: Yeah. So, alright. I think we gotta start with, I would love for you to walk us through, you were telling me a little bit about your experience in the restaurant industry and how that kind of catapulted your love for marketing.

[00:04:42] Josh: And your passion for business. But then you kinda stumbled into the credit union industry, which I think hint in, hint, like most of us can agree. We all did. I don’t think many of us woke up and we’re like, I’m gonna work for a credit union. but, you know, how did that then translate to being so passionate about really challenging the status quo of kind of how credit unions have done marketing and branding and thinking about putting their message out.

[00:05:05] Josh: So take us back to the restaurant days.

[00:05:07] Katie: Yeah, so I started at Restaurant as a host and I just kind of did that for. all through high school and college until I graduated. And then, I kind of started with this mindset of I’m just gonna get here and I’m gonna work through high school and college. Pay my way and everything will be great. but I was really fortunate to have a mentor who saw more in me and said, no, you’re, we’re not gonna play it safe. I’m gonna send you out into the, the wild, as he would say, and you’re going to go to businesses and try to get their catering business. And that helped me learn all the basics of marketing, but also just human connection.

[00:05:42] Katie: And I realized that is what I love, is that, you know, connecting with humans and sharing real stories and hearing their stories and so. When I got to the credit union, I honestly thought I’ll be here for a year or two. I just need to get my foot in the door. I’ve got my business degree. I don’t need that much experience here.

[00:05:58] Katie: I’ll move on. because as you mentioned, I didn’t wake up and say I really wanna work at a credit union. I, I wanted to change the world. In fact, my original dream job was the CEO of Nike. So I was like, this is a stopping point for me. But then just as I started really getting ingrained in the culture and the community, I fell in love with that credit union vibe, if you will, of, you know, people helping people and hearing so many different members stories over the years, it’s just helped me to realize that we, I know my boss always says, we’re, we’re saving PDFs, Katie.

[00:06:31] Katie: We’re not saving lives. But for me, it’s, it is, we’re maybe not saving their lives, but we are helping them transform them. To a degree and help them,

[00:06:39] Katie: give them the tools to help them be successful in their journey instead of, you know, the, the big guys who, they’re not out for the little, average Joe.

[00:06:48] Katie: They, they care about the big bank, the big commercial businesses. So I feel like we fill that gap, but we don’t talk about it. You know, we don’t brag about how great we are and how many lies we’ve changed. And so that’s kind of been my catalyst, is how do we communicate that to our members And also other, you know, potential members of the public of credit unions aren’t just here for the bottom line.

[00:07:12] Katie: We genuinely care and we’re advocating for you. And so that’s kind of been my life’s goal for the past 12 years with Sunwest.

[00:07:20] Josh: it’s funny that you bring that up, Katie, because like we were saying, like, ’cause so few people wake up one morning and are like, as a child and are like, my

[00:07:29] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:29] Josh: is to work at a credit union. Right? But at the same time, I think what’s super interesting is we have so many conversations with people in our industry, right?

[00:07:38] Josh: Who stumbled into a credit union and then they all of a sudden developed this crazy passion like you have, right? And they’re like, no, no, no, this, this whole people helping people thing. It’s actually real.

[00:07:48] Katie: Right,

[00:07:49] Josh: And then I, you know, I actually would agree with, you in that I, I kind of think we actually are saving lives.

[00:07:55] Josh: You know, maybe not like er, doctor

[00:07:58] Katie: right. Not that talented.

[00:08:01] Josh: I mean, you know, I think long-term listeners of our podcast are no stranger to my story. Like I was saved by a credit union and genuinely, I don’t know where I would be in

[00:08:10] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[00:08:11] Josh: if that moment hadn’t happened. So it may not have been life or death, but I can tell you like with pretty high degree of certainty, I think my path and my outcome would’ve been very different Mary had not stepped into my life.

[00:08:27] Josh: Right. And so the what’s I think is so interesting, and I think this is what you’ve really latched onto, is a lot of times we, that’s so normal for the credit union

[00:08:39] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[00:08:40] Josh: It just gets kind of washed away in a day’s work. And these are actually really powerful stories. And it’s like you didn’t know that you were gonna fall in love with credit unions until you started working at one, and then you started working at one, you were like, hot dang, this is like really awesome.

[00:08:56] Josh: This is actually fulfilling that like deep driving personal mission I had. I’m gonna stay here for the long haul. And it’s like, I think that that same thing happens to members when they become a member of the credit union, but it’s getting there, there in the first place when they’re like, I didn’t even know you existed.

[00:09:12] Josh: What did you tell me? You were talking to somebody recently. And they’re like, oh, are you guys like new? And you’re like, no, we’ve been around for 75 years. Like,

[00:09:18] Katie: it exactly.

[00:09:19] Josh: so

[00:09:20] Katie: But we

[00:09:20] Josh: it takes a marketer to get that out to them.

[00:09:24] Katie: E Exactly. And

[00:09:25] Katie: it’s so interesting because we’ve had, we’ve done kind of these, I call ’em campaigns, but that’s marketer speak, but it’s, we’re storytelling and we have so many stories just like this one where we have a long-term member who, just loved the staff at one of our branches, and he actually was on his way to the hospital to begin the process to enter hospice.

[00:09:47] Katie: He stopped by our branch and went in to talk to the branch management team and tell them, Hey, this is, this is in the road for me, and I am, you know, I’m not, I have a couple days left and I wanted to stop by and say goodbye to my favorite people. And it’s sharing that because to, to us human connection is currency.

[00:10:07] Katie: And if we don’t have that, everything else we’re doing, it’s just software or it’s just numbers. It’s, it’s really the people at the heart of it that I think, you know. Like you said, we do, we deal with every day, but because it’s natural for most credit unions, we don’t advertise that or we don’t broadcast how we change lives.

[00:10:25] Katie: And so we actually did a series where we showcased all of those stories

[00:10:29] Katie: and just kind of connected with the community in that way.

[00:10:32] Josh: That’s super cool. Yeah. Be I, I think you’re right. I mean, it’s, so much of what we do is commoditized, right? And so much of what we do is replicatable, right? Like as long as you’re running a relatively financially sound credit

[00:10:47] Katie: Right,

[00:10:48] Josh: if all of a sudden chase or Chime or whoever says, we now have this rate on our CDs, you can be like, okay, so do we.

[00:11:00] Katie: right.

[00:11:01] Josh: It’s pretty replicatable, right?

[00:11:04] Katie: Yeah.

[00:11:04] Josh: But I would argue the harder thing to get right, it is, it’s the people element, it’s the culture side of it. It’s the actually living through the relationship side. And so it’s really, really easy for you to replicate Chase’s rate. It’s really easy for you to replicate.

[00:11:26] Josh: Chase has whatever, turn your car to on or off

[00:11:29] Katie: Right?

[00:11:30] Josh: banking. Like that stuff’s easy, dude. Like, but

[00:11:34] Katie: table

[00:11:35] Josh: and try and get Chase to convince me that they know who I am and care about me as a

[00:11:38] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[00:11:39] Josh: Like that’s a

[00:11:40] Katie: Yeah.

[00:11:41] Josh: can’t climb.

[00:11:42] Katie: Yeah. We always, on our team, we, you know, kind of as we’re gearing up for, to really go through this brand overhaul and we talk about that and how, you know, it’s, we always do our robot voice for Chase, you know, or any of the big guys. we call him Goliaths and it we’re David versus Goliaths.

[00:11:59] Katie: And you walk in and it’s, hello, how can I help you? And then you walk in to us and it’s, Hey Dave, how are you? How’s Emma and the kids?

[00:12:06] Katie: Did you end up signing, you know, Susie up for sports? Is she in gymnastics? How’s that going? And I think that that is really all we do have to separate us in, in a

[00:12:15] Katie: market where it’s commodity based, everyone is the same.

[00:12:18] Katie: We look and sound the same. And I’ve said four years, just because we are a credit union doesn’t mean we have to look, act, or sound like one. We can still provide these really cool experiences and be human in doing so. So it’s, that’s kind of been our approach since I’ve been here.

[00:12:35] Josh: And that kind of comes back to you. You were telling me before we started recording that that was one of the things that really stuck out with you from your mentor at the restaurant, right? You were saying your GM gave you a new look on like what this executive was supposed to look like. And it doesn’t have to be this super robotic and prim and proper and polished, like always puts on this facade of as soon as I take on, you know, a C-level title, then this is what I have to embody.

[00:13:04] Josh: And you’re like, oh, I can actually be a total goofball. I can

[00:13:08] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[00:13:09] Josh: like level set with people. I can still be transparent, I can still be all of these things and be an executive.

[00:13:15] Katie: Yeah. And it’s, it’s so funny because we, we got this new dress code ’cause, you know, COVID happened and we got really relaxed and our HR director was like, all right Katie, it’s time to clean it up. Help me out. And so we put it together. And it’s so funny because I hear all the time, you know, executives have to wear a power suit and for females and heels, and you have to be so polished all the time.

[00:13:37] Katie: And I, I wear blazers and I wear Jordans,

[00:13:40] Katie: or I wear like the Nike Cortez, you know, the latest dunks. What? I’m a shoe. I love shoes. And so, I walk around and I have had so many people say, we just hired a new social, engagement strategist. And she said, I had many. Job opportunities. I had a few offers at the same time, but I chose your offer from Sunwest because of you, because

[00:14:02] Katie: you came in and, and your, and your sneakers, and you were just so bold and real with me.

[00:14:08] Katie: You were transparent and it just felt genuine. Whereas the rest of ’em feel like this is a script that I have to say versus just showing up and being that vulnerable, raw human that we all are.

[00:14:21] Josh: You know, I, the, that’s an interesting take on it too, Katie, ’cause it’s like there, I think there’s absolutely, like there’s more than two, right? But if you put it into kind of two big buckets, there is a world that wants to buy that way, right? That wants to do business that way, that wants to interact with people that way.

[00:14:40] Josh: Where it’s like, if I show up, I mean, perfect case point. Like we literally do do this. Like you’ve seen me in person, right? I don’t show up in a suit.

[00:14:48] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[00:14:49] Josh: show up in the executive suit. I don’t show up with the super expensive dress shoes. I got a pair of old Chuck Taylors on that have more miles on ’em than, you know, some people’s cars.

[00:14:58] Josh: And, that’s just who we are. And you know what? That turns some people off.

[00:15:03] Katie: Right.

[00:15:04] Josh: does. And they’re like, no, no. I want to see my definition of success in you before I can trust you. And so therefore I need to see, I need to see the nice suit that’s tailored. I need to see the status symbol, watch. I need to see these things.

[00:15:18] Josh: And I need your presentation to be very business scripted and oriented. And I need it to check mark certain boxes. And there’s a world for that. Right? And you and I, Katie, we’re never gonna succeed in that world. ’cause that’s just not authentic to us.

[00:15:32] Katie: aren’t our people.

[00:15:33] Josh: aren’t our people. And I’m cool with that. But it’s the people where it’s like, Hey, you know what, can I just, can I come in and my, you know, my shorts and my t-shirt and my hat?

[00:15:42] Josh: And can we just have a conversation as people and just like be okay with that? And I don’t know about you, but that’s a heck of a lot more fun to me.

[00:15:50] Katie: It’s more fun. And I feel like, especially in our industry, it helps people to feel less, I think, embarrassed or

[00:15:58] Katie: ashamed if they are falling on those times, you know, or even when they are successful, I think it helps them to feel, Hey, I can tell them my next moves and know that they’re gonna be my partner along the way instead of my barrier. And, you know, that’s been our biggest, I think, takeaway going towards really leaning into that human element is where you’re trusted. You know, I keep saying bestie, but we have your back. And that’s how we come across in our brand. We’re not stiff, we’re not the elitist banker. We, we don’t wanna be. And we always say, you know, we need to find our people and maybe our people aren’t the big business guys, and that’s okay.

[00:16:33] Katie: Our people though, they, they relate to us and we relate to them in a way that makes them feel like they can share anything with us. And we’re gonna have their back the whole, every time.

[00:16:44] Josh: I wish I could have like the, you know, the emoji that’s like, it’s, it’s head blowing off. I wish I could visually represent that right now, because that’s what you just did for me. I, I’ve never thought about it. I guess that directly as the way you just put it. And I mean this is gonna like reshape how I think going forward from this.

[00:17:04] Josh: It was super interesting hearing you talk about, like, just thinking about there’s gonna be two groups of people, right? Again, there’s gonna be more, but like if we put it down to two, there are gonna be certain people that want to go in and they want to see the ivory tower bank, right? And they wanna see the marble and they want to see the super expensive fixtures and the like stoic bank that says we have, you know, established trust and we are professional bankers and, and all of that.

[00:17:32] Josh: There’s gonna be a group of people that, that want that. That’s not gonna be a Sunwest member. A SUNWEST member is gonna go into that institution and be like, you know what? I don’t feel like I can have a real conversation about where I’m at in life and I don’t think they’re gonna meet me in that point in life, but they will find that with you.

[00:17:50] Josh: will find that with the credit union industry. And I think that’s a very different conversation of understanding like who our people are and who our people aren’t. And then just saying, well, we’re gonna be unabashedly right for the people that are our people.

[00:18:03] Katie: Yeah. It’s, it’s kind of, it really is that we have this purpose and it is to champion the financial wellbeing of our members. That is everything we do comes back to that. And I feel like purpose grounds us when the market shifts. So when things aren’t going well, it’s easy to, you know, panic and, and stress.

[00:18:21] Katie: But if you have purpose and you are living and speaking, embodying that purpose, I feel like that is the anchor when, you

[00:18:29] Katie: know, we’ve returned back to, back to that, you know, point. So for us, it’s, it’s not even an act. And that’s what I love about credit unions. We should be genuine. And if we are being, are genuine and selves in showing up in that space, our members feel that.

[00:18:46] Katie: And that’s why we have so many stories of, you know, just people of we’ve, one of our bank tellers has, has actually given her own wedding dress to a member after hearing her emotional in a branch one day that, you know, it wasn’t coming in time. She didn’t have enough,

[00:19:02] Katie: uh, money to get another one. It just wasn’t going to work out.

[00:19:06] Katie: And our, our teller at the time said, Hey, you know what? I actually have a wedding dress that I would be happy to lend you so that you can have your.

[00:19:16] Katie: Wedding. And so they exchanged numbers. They got the wedding dress, and that member continues to support our credit union today, and then it, it affects their children’s lives now.

[00:19:26] Katie: And so it’s, we have shown them that we’re here for you. And when we say that we mean it, it’s not empty words. You

[00:19:32] Katie: know, you hear that all the time and it’s, it’s actually how are you representing that daily for us?

[00:19:40] Josh: You know, I mean, I think it, it’s, it’s so cool to see the types of stories that you have with members and the impacts that you have in their lives. That, again, I just, I don’t feel like you have in other institutions,

[00:19:51] Katie: Right.

[00:19:52] Josh: like, nobody’s gonna say that about Venmo. Right. And, and there’s gonna be a certain demographic of people that don’t care and they just want to do with Venmo and that kind of thing.

[00:20:01] Josh: But, I mean literal real, real world scenario. So, you know, I, uh, I went out to go visit Katie in the Sunwest team in Phoenix. My favorite aunt and uncle live in Phoenix. And I text him, I was like, Hey, I’m gonna be out there this time. Like, I’d love to see you guys. And they’re like, oh, bummer.

[00:20:20] Josh: We’re out of town. Like, we won’t see you, whatever. And then fast forward, a couple of weeks later, and they were here in town with us, staying with us, coming to see the kids, that kind of thing. And my aunt was asking me, she’s like, oh, hey, you know how you were just in. You know, Phoenix, we’re sorry we missed you, you know, how was work?

[00:20:38] Josh: And I was like, oh my gosh, it was so great. Like, I had a really, really fun meeting that I just walked away from, super excited about all of this. And she was like, oh yeah, who was that with? And I was like, oh, I mean, you know, I don’t know if you would know, but I was like, it was with Sunwest Credit Union.

[00:20:52] Josh: And my aunt literally like, I really wish I had this on video. She literally jumped off my couch,

[00:20:57] Katie: Oh my gosh.

[00:20:58] Josh: jumps off my couch and is so excited. And she’s like, we’re members of Sunwest,

[00:21:03] Katie: I love

[00:21:03] Josh: you know? And it’s like, could you, if I had been like, oh yeah, I met with Chase, even if they banked with Chase, could you see her jumping off of my couch being like, we bank with Chase.

[00:21:12] Josh: No. Now,

[00:21:12] Katie: because No, absolutely not. Yeah.

[00:21:15] Josh: right? So, I mean, but okay, now the question is, so we’re, we’re all going through this, right? And the competition is not just Chase anymore, it’s all digital offerings. It’s neobanks and fintechs that are popping up. It’s the ability and kind of the, like you were saying earlier, just even, you know, the, the fact that like so much of this is a commodity.

[00:21:41] Josh: People may have this commodity from this provider and this commodity from this provider and this commodity, from this provider. Now we’re so fragmented, so we’re super fragmented. We’re super digital. How do you take Sunwest forward to say like, we’re gonna differentiate on relationships and value If you may never, ever meet that member in person,

[00:22:01] Katie: Yeah. So I think that’s why I, you know, as a team, we always say that we need to create a vibe digitally, and, and so for me it’s every

[00:22:10] Josh: sorry, I have to interrupt you. I hate to interrupt you, but only you would say we have to create digital as a vibe, but like, just for our production team, just side note, if that’s not like a giant quote card, like we’ve, we’ve done something wrong. So

[00:22:25] Katie: But it’s, it’s so, yeah, it’s so true though, because to us, every tap, click, swipe should feel like it came from somebody who understands you. It shouldn’t feel like this, which I think is something that we’re going through that digital transformation, but it shouldn’t feel like I go. To my mobile app, and it’s talking to me in language that my credit union doesn’t use. It’s very formal. It’s, it’s uptight. It’s, it’s that elitist, uh, vibe.

[00:22:53] Katie: But my credit union talks to me like I’m a human and their, their content on their page, their website is, is very down to earth. Why would that be any different across our digital spectrum? And so for us, it’s, yeah, digital has to, we have to be digital first. We’re in an era where if we’re not, we’re left behind.

[00:23:13] Katie: And we know that. And, but for me, it was like a future ready credit union isn’t built on legacy systems with legacy thinking. So we have, we have the tools today, but they’re, they’re, they’re not meeting people where they need to be. And that’s why we’re going through this entire, I kind of call it, uh, this level set.

[00:23:30] Katie: We’re starting over, but not really. And I feel like showing up digitally personally. Is going to be the game changer. So it’s building in those experiences where if I’m stuck on an application, I’m not waiting for some canned email saying, um, your review, your pro application is being reviewed. I’m getting a, a response that tailored to them that’s saying, you know, Hey, we’re, we’re gonna, we’re looking things over. We’re gonna give you a call because we really wanna prove this for you, Susie. You know, and it’s, it’s tying in human connection through every step of that digital journey without forgetting that the platform has to work.

[00:24:10] Katie: Everyone knows that, but how do we stand out? And for me, that’s by having a bold brand that’s by not being afraid to say, think words like vibe and bestie, and we’ve got you. Hey, we’re here for you in the long run. Instead of those typical terms of. Buy or purchase a, a cd, you know? Or why don’t

[00:24:31] Katie: we go ahead and get you booked for an account that, what does that mean to people? And so we focus on if our brand doesn’t speak to you that way in person, why would we show up in digital and not tell our story and not be human?

[00:24:45] Josh: I love that. And I think because right, and, and again, kind of going back to what we’ve talked about before, not everybody will think like us in this and agree with us, but I’m a personal big proponent of like, how you communicate to people is so incredibly important. And I will argue that even the like odst of stereotypical, like big bank bankers who wears his perfect suit every single day to the office and

[00:25:15] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:16] Josh: still likes to have fun,

[00:25:17] Katie: Oh, of course you’re not human if you

[00:25:20] Josh: And still likes to be human. And it’s like, you know, I bet you anything that, if they were to go up to their best friend and be like, hello David, it is a pleasure to see you on this afternoon. They’d be like, what are you talking about Jackass? Like, come on man. You know?

[00:25:37] Katie: does dinner commence?

[00:25:38] Josh: yeah. What time does dinner commence? And be like, Hey bro, are we getting burgers after the game?

[00:25:44] Katie: right.

[00:25:45] Josh: Right? Like that is how people, we really do communicate and we’ve kind of like forced this almost stale form of communication on ourselves. And I’m excited to see it come back around to like, oh, we’re just being people.

[00:25:58] Josh: Right? But you’re so right. I mean, if, if the way we communicate through nonverbal human interactions isn’t that, then it does it, it feels cold and

[00:26:11] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[00:26:11] Josh: I think you’ll love this example. It’s one of my favorite examples of a time I really noticed a big software company, like breaking what I would’ve expected to be their mold of communication.

[00:26:23] Josh: And it really stood out for me. And it was the first year I did taxes as a parent and I was using TurboTax and. Taxes is a black and white thing, right? It’s very like you would expect it to be very corporate lingo and all of that stuff, right? And I was going through and I input my son Jack, you know, first year of having him as a dependent.

[00:26:49] Josh: And it pops up a question and it says, did this last year, did Jackson pay for, more than 51% of his household expenses? And I was like, are you kidding me? And then I noticed it had a little thing right next to it and it said, why are we asking you this? And I was like, I’m curious. And I clicked it, and I’m not kidding, Katie, it said, Hey, like, Hey, we’re so sorry.

[00:27:16] Josh: We have to ask you this. We know what the answer is. Jack’s a baby, but the IRS makes us ask you this question. So that’s why we asked. And I was like, oh, so cool. It felt so human in that moment. And I felt so like. Heard as a person doing their

[00:27:33] Katie: mm-hmm. And you obviously still remember it, you

[00:27:37] Katie: know, years later and whatnot. And it’s funny because we have, on our website, on our careers page, you know, we have this, the legal disclaimer that’s not really legal. It’s, it’s my team writing it, but it’s, something like, join Sun West, if you are looking to have a good time, work hard, but, you know, play harder, that kind of thing. and it says, PS please don’t, tell our lawyers that we added this, this disclaimer, because we cannot guarantee what your experience will be like. Like it’s just, it’s this fun en environment and we, I can’t tell you how many applicants, even just for internal teams, we get that, say. We looked at other credit unions and we chose sunwest and you, you guys to work here because you just, you felt like me

[00:28:20] Katie: and it felt like I could be a real person there and just get to learn and grow in an environment that feels safe and rewarding instead of, you know, again, just putting, I think the bottom line first, which all businesses care about that we can’t deny it, but we take it a step further.

[00:28:37] Katie: And that’s, again, the bare minimum to us if we have to be a financially sound, strong credit union for our members. But also what else can we do?

[00:28:47] Katie: Is that all that we, you know, signed up for? And if you ask anyone here, obviously the answer’s no. We have to, we kind of owe it to our members to do right by them.

[00:28:56] Katie: And I feel it works best when you do it in a way that they can resonate with,

[00:29:02] Josh: Yeah. Well, but it also, I mean, it has to be authentic too, right? Like, you can’t, you can’t say it and then do it differently. And you can’t do it one way, but then not say it. And, like, I, I like the example of, you know, just how, how much. We can put all these huge, big pieces of software

[00:29:22] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:22] Josh: all these different problems.

[00:29:24] Josh: We can do all of this stuff to, you know, simplify the member experience in filling out this application from two minutes to one

[00:29:32] Katie: right.

[00:29:32] Josh: you know, that, that looks great on our KPIs, in our metrics, but did that actually accomplish something authentic to our credit union? Is the question. And the reason I say that is, I, another example I love is, I can’t, I can’t remember who it was, maybe it’s not that great of an example, but I remember, uh, not too long ago, a piece of software I was using and I got a loading page.

[00:29:56] Josh: And instead of a loading page, it literally had a, a hamster wheel and a hamster running like, ah, and it said, we’re super sorry, but the hamsters run it as fast as you can right now. And I was like, that’s hilarious. And because of that, I didn’t care how long the page loaded anymore,

[00:30:11] Katie: right?

[00:30:12] Josh: right? And I stuck around so.

[00:30:15] Josh: Could a credit union in theory be like, Hey, we could spend $6.2 million to increase our, you know, infrastructure capacity to reduce our login time from 3.2 seconds to 2.8 seconds. Or could we just put a hamster in a wheel spin and going, we’re trying to fast. We can guys, but if your brand is not authentic to a hamster running in a wheel and making a joke at that, then it’s gonna be a mismatch.

[00:30:41] Josh: But if it is your brand and you speak that internally and you do that, like you just used messaging and

[00:30:47] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:49] Josh: to save millions of dollars in infrastructure, and you actually probably have an even happier member who’s like, eh, yeah, sun West is kind of funny. That’s

[00:30:56] Katie: Yeah, and it, we actually have a, kind of an experience like that. We launched our AI assistant, through L gb, we call her Sunny Play on sunwest. you can tell, it was created by an IT guy and marketing loved it. We, we adopted it because we’re, we’re so proud of, of his idea, but it was, we launched it and, you know, we have a lot of members again, who love that human connection.

[00:31:18] Katie: And

[00:31:19] Katie: so it wasn’t adopted as easily as we thought with the marketing. We powered behind it. And so we kind of sent out this email and not thinking that it would give the traction that it did, but we sent out an email saying, Hey, we heard you, we see you we’re, we’re sending Sunny back to training. She’s, she’s going back to camp to learn how to have the fun conversations the way you guys need it.

[00:31:42] Katie: And we got responses to that of just.

[00:31:45] Katie: Hey, thanks. You know, and it, it was because we were transparent.

[00:31:49] Katie: We were authentic in how we responded, but we tur like the hamster. We turned it into, you know, Sonny Sonny’s going back to work. And then when she’s back when she’s ready, she’ll be, you know, this new improved version.

[00:32:00] Katie: But it was in a way that felt we’re, we’re poking fun at ourselves, but we’re doing it in a way that still feels like we’re always improving. So thanks for sticking with us. Sunny’s gonna become awesome. And, you know, we’re getting close to launching her, her next version and feeling a lot more confident in it because we have that connection and we can show up digitally or with AI and not be afraid to fail.

[00:32:24] Katie: And I think that that’s, that’s that mentality that we have of that challenger spirit of fast fail,

[00:32:30] Katie: put things out there, try it, change the, change the narrative. And then if things don’t work, own it, but then own it in a way that feels human and it feels vulnerable instead of, you know, that typical. Punted and if we bury our head in the sand, it’ll go away.

[00:32:46] Josh: You know, I’m not a psychologist, so I could be totally speaking outta turn here, but I mean, I just, again, I, I go back to I feel like the general populace of people, and if we think about it, like the people that we would want as members of credit unions, our target audience. They’re just real people, right?

[00:33:05] Josh: And as real people like you, I just, I wanna have a transparent conversation. I don’t want this facade. I don’t want to like be expected to be in this very specific box in the form of communication that I have. Like, I’m just gonna be me. And when, when you do that, I think you create a different level of trust.

[00:33:26] Josh: And yes, when you have the big ivory towers and the, you know, granite countertops and the, everybody’s dressed in a perfectly pressed suit, like, yes, that does create a certain level of

[00:33:36] Katie: Right.

[00:33:37] Josh: But I would almost argue, at least for me personally, like I trust somebody more when I’m like, ah, no, Katie’s raw.

[00:33:45] Josh: Like Katie will tell me, like, she’ll tell me what I need to hear. And

[00:33:49] Katie: you like it or not.

[00:33:50] Josh: yeah. And she’ll say like, Hey, that sunny thing kind of didn’t work out. Um, we’re sending her back to training. I’m like, you know what? That’s cool. I appreciate that. I respect that. I respect that vulnerability. And now I know that if you’ll tell me about that, you’ll tell me about other things.

[00:34:08] Josh: And I think that just creates a very different relationship. And I love that approach. Kind of going back to, I’d love to hear more about,

[00:34:15] Katie: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:34:16] Josh: I love that approach of how you’re thinking about digital transformation because I, I mean, that is a topic. It’s, I, I actually ran, uh, an analysis on the podcast, I think when we hit episode like 90 Katie.

[00:34:29] Josh: And the number one topic that was discussed was digital transformation. But what I found fascinating as I did that analysis was that, it was the most talked about and it was the least agreed upon of what the definition was. And I don’t think anybody’s actually talked about it the way you are now.

[00:34:48] Josh: And I personally align with the way you’re talking about it. I think that’s why we get along as

[00:34:53] Katie: Yeah, I think so too.

[00:34:54] Josh: Uh, but talking about digital transformation, it doesn’t just have to be like, we had this form and now it’s on an iPad. It doesn’t just have to be, we automated this process. It used to be manual.

[00:35:05] Josh: Now it’s, you know, done by a machine. It doesn’t have to be all this data driven stuff. It can literally just be, Hey, we’re transforming how we’re doing digital from being digital to just being another human channel.

[00:35:20] Katie: Mm-hmm. And that’s something, you know, I say to our marketers and as well as our experience teams all the time is digital transformation isn’t just about faster tech. It’s about creating digital experiences that feel human. And one way we do that is, you know, again, we’re on TikTok, we’re on social media, and that’s great, but that has to be an extension of our brand, just as the digital digital channels do.

[00:35:47] Katie: So when you chat with us on online, it, it shouldn’t be again, you know, hi Susan. please tell me what you need help with today. It’s, Hey, you know what, what can we do for you to help you along your way? You know,

[00:36:02] Katie: it’s, it’s having that connection and I feel like a lot of people, and we, we hear it in our credit union all the time too.

[00:36:08] Katie: We’re going through a digital transformation. We’re going through massive change digitally. Well, that’s great to us though. It’s, it’s the bare minimum today

[00:36:16] Katie: to compete you have to have the, the fancy bells and whistles. You have to have everything with tech. Your sta tech stack has to be competitive. So to us, that’s just, that’s the table stakes. It’s how do we layer on top of that, that human element that keeps us competitive, but also makes us stand out. And I, I would argue a lot of credit unions are human and they all, you know, appreciate that relationship. But we take it further and we’re bold about it, and we’re not afraid to call out, you know, Hey, this doesn’t make sense in our industry.

[00:36:47] Katie: What are we doing about it? How are we showing up for you and protecting you when this happens? And I think, you know, sharing those real scenarios that we’ve gone through on our financial journeys, even as a team, helps people to realize, okay, they get us, they’ve been where we’ve been, and they’re not afraid to be vulnerable about it.

[00:37:06] Katie: And I think that is why we stand out.

[00:37:09] Josh: Yeah. Well, and that goes back to, so many times we fall into this rut of doing things the way we’ve always

[00:37:15] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[00:37:16] Josh: which means we communicate a lot of times like bankers and like technologists, and the vast majority of our members and our users are not bankers. And they’re not technologists, right?

[00:37:34] Josh: Like, I love the example, like I work in tech, I work for a tech company. It drives me nuts, Katie. When I go to a webpage and I get a 4 0 4 error, I’m gonna, show everybody just how dumb I really am. I actually don’t know what that means. I literally don’t know what the problem is.

[00:37:49] Josh: I just know it means something’s broken, but that’s all I know, right? But it drives me nuts when I get a 4 0 4 error. I’m like, that literally means somebody just coded in there to show up 4 0 4 error when something’s broken. I’m like, how about tell me like, Hey, the connection is down. We’re working on it.

[00:38:04] Josh: Just come back and refresh this page in five minutes and we’ll be back up, or something like that, right? And I’d be like, oh, as a lay person, like, I understand what that means. And so, yeah, all the time, it’s like when we go into, digital banking and we’re like, share 1, 2, 6, 4. I’m like, that makes perfect sense to the member services representative and the member’s like, I, huh?

[00:38:26] Josh: Yeah. I’m gonna share this with you.

[00:38:28] Katie: right?

[00:38:28] Josh: what,

[00:38:30] Katie: Right. No, it’s, it’s something that, when I took over the marketing department, it was one of the first things I tackled was why do we, why do we say that these things

[00:38:39] Katie: and use this, the industry jargon

[00:38:41] Katie: for average people. Because before I worked at the credit union when I first started, and I’m like, what is a share? What is a share

[00:38:48] Katie: account? And what do you mean there’s primary, and then I have all these additional ones. What, what’s my savings account? How does this work? and instead of saying, you know, CDs like. Most banks, you know, it’s, it’s share certificate. What So it, it was kind of tackling that, which seems so like small, but it started to change the way I think people interacted

[00:39:12] Katie: with us and we were getting more search results, right?

[00:39:15] Katie: Because instead of having to know the jargon, it’s, how do I call this as a normal person? And so that, that was the start of that evolution. But we’re going through a deeper evolution because I feel we show up and we’re pretty bold right now, but I wanna be more bold. I wanna be more disruptive. And so we’re working with an agency and it was funny ’cause they just rebranded one of our competitors and they said, Katie, you know, you’re saying you wanna be bold, disruptive, you really don’t wanna look like anybody else. You don’t wanna sound like anyone else. And you wanna push the boundaries of what happens in your industry. We just heard the same thing from your competitor. And everything we presented, Ooh, that’s too far. We need to play it safe. And they ended up changing a color, but staying true to what they’ve always known.

[00:40:06] Katie: And I get it. That feels comfortable. It feels safe. And as humans, we like routine. But for us it was okay, now we have even greater opportunity to stand out because we’re all in on being bold and on being that that advocate for not just our members, but for the industry and to kind of fight back against the things that just don’t make sense.

[00:40:26] Katie: Why are we doing it this way? and so at going through that, it, it should be an extension throughout your digital channels as well. It should not feel like a disconnected experience. So a lot of work that we’re undertaking, but to me, it’s absolutely necessary in order to survive today, but also to differentiate

[00:40:45] Josh: Yeah. I mean, I agree that, you know, nobody makes the history books for being the status quo.

[00:40:51] Katie: Right.

[00:40:51] Josh: Right. And we are absolutely in a time where, I mean, there’s more competitive pressure for financial services than

[00:40:59] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[00:41:00] Josh: And there’s lots of different ways that people are tackling

[00:41:04] Katie: Right?

[00:41:05] Josh: And I agree. I mean, I think you’re gonna have to be bold.

[00:41:08] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[00:41:09] Josh: you’re gonna have to stand out because we live in a commodity driven business. And I’m sorry, but like, if your strategy is just to have, we have the best checking account rates on a billboard on the side of the freeway. Your competitor could just match that rate tomorrow, match that billboard tomorrow with their colors and their logo, and Bob’s your uncle,

[00:41:31] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[00:41:32] Josh: What are the things that you can do that truly stand out, that differentiate, that are hard to replicate, that are authentic to you? And that is where you’re gonna have to push the envelope. And I agree. I mean, Katie, we, you know, we see credit unions, community, banks, uh, companies, not just, I’m, I’m not trying to just paint a picture on, you know, our industry, but across the globe that are just packing it.

[00:41:58] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[00:41:59] Josh: saying, Hey, look, we’re gonna keep doing it the way we’ve always done it. nobody gets fired for buying IBM, so go buy the safe piece of the software, use the same language we’ve been using because nobody wants to rock the boat. Right? Well, but at the same time, the same people that have been your members, they’re not gonna be your members anymore.

[00:42:15] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[00:42:16] Josh: And we’ve gotta figure out what is the next evolution of membership look like for our credit union? And what do they expect? And I think what they expect is they expect some bold, they expect some

[00:42:26] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[00:42:27] Josh: some value add, and, and they want to be met where they are, and they wanna be communicated to like real people.

[00:42:34] Josh: I love that you’re thinking about digital transformation. And I think the coolest part about this whole thing too is that like, this is the, the cheapest and the easiest thing to do too, right? Like, you could uphold your core digital banking cards, like payments, all of this stuff. Or you could just like be a little bit more human in what your text says in those platforms, and you might actually get a bigger value.

[00:43:02] Katie: Yeah. And it’s

[00:43:03] Josh: enough to do that?

[00:43:04] Katie: right. And it’s just, you know, I think credit unions especially just because going to different industry conferences and talking to other credit union marketers specifically, I hear that same, it’s like this internal war between how do we scale, how do we go digital and go all in so that we are competitive. But then we don’t wanna lose sight of who we were and, and what

[00:43:26] Katie: made credit unions different from banks. And for me, it’s, you don’t wanna lose that humanity in the code and in that software because at the end of the day, it’s software. Nobody remembers software, but it has to feel emotionally charged in a way.

[00:43:41] Katie: And I think that’s how you stand out because everyone has digital and like you’d mentioned earlier, it’s not rocket science. I can’t build it. I am not

[00:43:49] Josh: True. Yeah. Let’s caveat.

[00:43:51] Katie: but Yes. Yeah.

[00:43:53] Josh: It’s not rocket science as somebody else, but it

[00:43:55] Katie: right, right. But I mean, you’re right, a lot of ’em, they have really similar features and it’s great. But I think even for us, it’s who, who represents that best and who represents the member and, and where they’re at today.

[00:44:09] Katie: And it’s not gonna be the big guys, it’s not gonna be the Goliath. it’s, it’s going to be the, the team that has been there for you since day one. And I think that that’s another step. Sharing those stories. So if you help somebody refinance

[00:44:26] Katie: their car, don’t just accept it as it is. Take it and share it with your digital teams.

[00:44:32] Katie: So marketing, we share those stories with our digital support teams, with our back office teams, so that way they, they also have the connection

[00:44:40] Katie: to that human element. And they’re not just thinking about, oh, I need to increase users. I need to increase adoption rate my KPIs, Ooh, KPIs, metrics, all the powerful things.

[00:44:49] Katie: That’s great. You need that. You have to have data to make decisions. But what happens when the data doesn’t tell the whole story? And that’s where you need to be able to share that human connection and have your teams also ingrained with that to scale, because then they understand the why. They, it’s much easier to get your teams behind it where you’re going digitally if they understand how they’re impacting that member experience.

[00:45:15] Josh: okay. Go back. You said something really interesting. You were talking about how do you scale without losing soul.

[00:45:21] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[00:45:22] Josh: I think that’s another big element of this that we haven’t really talked about yet, which is okay, it’s really easy for, you know, sunwest at your size today to say, Hey, you know what, we’re gonna give Katie carte blanche to like change the verbiage on our website to be more reflective of like who we really are and our personality as a brand.

[00:45:44] Josh: But what happens when you are twice as big as you are now, four times as big as you are now, 20 times as big as you are now? How do you continue to keep that soul as you scale?

[00:45:57] Katie: Yeah. And I think that’s why, you know, marketers are always going to spin team. I think of parks and Rec all the time.

[00:46:04] Katie: but that’s, that’s really a marketer’s job. Right. But I think if you get beyond. S the kind of shallowness of that to a degree you have, it is storytelling. there’s ways in app, to kind of have banner ads.

[00:46:17] Katie: You know, we’ve helped this many members, save this bunch of money, or we have given, we have a pay it forward program. So we give our branch network and our contact center teams a budget every year to just help members on the spot. It doesn’t have to be this huge solve story, but it, it, we give them that so that way they can say, Hey, don’t even worry about this.

[00:46:38] Katie: We’re gonna help you out this time. And then let’s talk about how we can avoid this in the future. Let’s talk about how we can make sure you are set up for success.

[00:46:45] Katie: And you can do that digitally as well. You know, you can have those popups in your, in your app and those moments that share the humans behind the keyboard, behind the code. and then also, again, I think it’s huge. You have to share those wins. With your teams that don’t have that member interaction because then you do lose soul. You become a, a tech company and you’re only thinking about how do I increase these metrics so that my boss is really proud of me? No, it should be.

[00:47:15] Katie: That’s great. But, but again, that’s business. That’s just the cost of doing business, the extra step. And where I feel those who are successful go that extra mile because they say we care about the bottom line and the KPIs. But we care more about the, the human storytelling that happens in between all of this software. and I think if you don’t share that there, it’s that disconnect.

[00:47:38] Katie: you’ve got marketing saying one thing publicly and this brand that’s powerful, but if they don’t experience that when they interact with your digital channels or even in person or on the phone, you’ve lost it. You’ve lost your humanity.

[00:47:50] Katie: And so we try really hard to keep our teams connected to, to that purpose and to, you know, all those ways we’ve helped members over the years instead of just, we show up every day and we take orders.

[00:48:02] Josh: Yeah. Well, you know, as you were talking, that made me think, I was actually just rereading, one of the case studies on the Ritz Carlton,

[00:48:11] Katie: Hmm.

[00:48:12] Josh: and they were talking about how one of the things that really propelled them to be known as an international icon for like having the best experiences

[00:48:25] Katie: Right.

[00:48:25] Josh: was that they, in the early days, they ran the business with a

[00:48:32] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[00:48:33] Josh: 90%, efficiency, like 90% of everything you did had to be run with like ruthless efficiency and every employee knew they had to tow the line within that they had to be ruthlessly efficient.

[00:48:46] Katie: Right.

[00:48:46] Josh: And then they gave ’em 10% and said, I don’t care what you do, here’s a budget down to the room cleaners, to the, you know, people at the front desk to the manager.

[00:48:57] Josh: You get a budget that you can do and no one will ever question what you do with it. It has to just be aligned to helping a guest. And they gave examples of like, a bellman who overhears somebody who is like so sad about not being able to get some croissant for their morning breakfast. And he literally bought a ticket, flew to France, got the croissant from that place from their other property, flew it back that night on a red eye.

[00:49:28] Josh: So that morning the guest woke up and there it was on their breakfast plate. Right? And that was probably a couple thousand dollars spend for this guy to fly out for a freaking croissant.

[00:49:40] Katie: right?

[00:49:41] Josh: And so to your point, like if you were to look at the business metrics and the ROI

[00:49:45] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[00:49:47] Josh: some CFO is gonna light that guy up and

[00:49:50] Katie: Oh, for sure.

[00:49:53] Josh: marketer is gonna say.

[00:49:54] Josh: That just built loyalty in that customer for life. And just think about the number of people that they’re gonna go tell about the unbelievable experience they just had at a Ritz Carlton. We will never, ever know will be attributed to that campaign of that croissant. And the spend for that croissant will never know, but we just got, you know, 10 millionaires who are now gonna exclusively stay at Ritz Carlton’s because they heard about this story.

[00:50:21] Katie: Right.

[00:50:21] Josh: Right? And so how can you do that same kind of thing within your credit union? And it sounds like that’s a big part of your strategy is to empower your staff to say like, I know I don’t have to ask for permission. I’m just gonna take care of the member. And as long as we’re doing a really good job with our business, like there can be a gray area where if somebody were to look at this really objectively on my KPIs, they’d be like, eh.

[00:50:46] Katie: What are we doing?

[00:50:47] Josh: What are we doing? But if we look at it subjectively and then we say, well, what was the value impact that that brought to that member? And that was all we needed out of that.

[00:50:56] Katie: Yeah. And I, I think something that we forget when we go digital and focus and go all in on digital is that. People do resonate with that and they’ll

[00:51:05] Katie: remember and they share that story. a lot of people think, well, you only hear the negative from a consumer, or you know, in our case a member, because that’s, that’s easier, right?

[00:51:15] Katie: It’s easier to just go out there and complain, but it, they don’t, I don’t think, see the impact of those, those good ones, the good stories that people have to share, those override. I think anytime you experience a negative, you know, a feedback, it helps the community kinda see like, okay, so they’re a normal business.

[00:51:35] Katie: They’re, they’re gonna have trips,

[00:51:37] Katie: but look at what they’re doing to, you know, to show up for their community and for their members. And so for me, like you said, can I tie ROI specifically, probably not, but can I tell you the impact we’ve had and then what that does as this kind of trickle effect or domino effect?

[00:51:54] Katie: It’s, it’s huge and I think a lot of marketers and business people lose sight of that.

[00:51:59] Josh: Yeah, I really like that idea of kinda like you were saying, I mean just, and, and even that the Ritz-Carlton example, like I, I like to run a lot of my business. I like to run a lot of my team based on data, based on KPIs,

[00:52:12] Katie: We all do, right?

[00:52:14] Josh: for, I don’t know, was it cool?

[00:52:19] Katie: Yeah.

[00:52:19] Josh: Did we have fun? Did like, did we stand out?

[00:52:23] Josh: Did we make an impact? Like what’s the ROI of that? I don’t know,

[00:52:28] Katie: Right.

[00:52:28] Josh: it was cool, right?

[00:52:31] Katie: Yeah.

[00:52:32] Josh: And if we leave some room for that, I think that is gonna be seen internally and externally.

[00:52:39] Katie: Yeah. And it’s one of the, I remember one of the first times I had just kind of started as a marketing director got promoted and my CEO comes to me a couple weeks before our annual meeting. And he says, Hey, I need to prepare a kind of a, a speech for the, the board. And I’m going, oh, what? I don’t, I don’t know what I’m doing.

[00:52:57] Katie: You’re throwing me in the head first. Okay. But I, I focused on that, you know, and my, my speech was on, you know, the, this number of loans. It, it’s wonderful, but it doesn’t tell you that we helped this member, finance their small business. And it

[00:53:12] Katie: doesn’t tell you that we helped this family fund their child’s cancer treatments.

[00:53:18] Katie: It doesn’t tell you that we did all of these things because numbers are powerful and I, I, I still stand by them. As a marketer, as a business, you cannot ignore the data, but the data really doesn’t tell you all of the things happening in, in your organization that do have this lasting impact and that make people resonate with you. And those, I always tell my CEO, that kind of stuff might not change. Your, the, the bottom line over.

[00:53:46] Katie: But if you’re consistent about it and you are a consistent in every interaction and who you are as a brand, it, it does hit, hit the bottom line. It might take some time to see it, but it absolutely shows up. And I think that as credit unions, we kind of stress so much now about we have to compete digitally. Absolutely we have to, but we can do it in a way that we don’t lose our humanity along the journey.

[00:54:13] Josh: So you said you guys are going through this rebrand

[00:54:16] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[00:54:16] Josh: you want to be really bold. And so what are some of the like different things that you guys are all discussing as a team? As you sit around the table and you think about, you know, what is the next evolution of, how our members and perspective members perceive sunwest?

[00:54:36] Josh: And what kinds of things are you thinking about to balance, not losing sight of who you are and where you came from, but also making sure that you’re not just doing what you’ve always done. Like how, how are you guys thinking about all of that?

[00:54:50] Katie: Yeah. I think if I were, to be completely honest, my team is very much ready to lead the past in the past, but you do have to make that connection between your history because that credit unions for so many years, that’s the founding philosophy, is there’s a better way to do this. We should be a cooperative and we need to give back to the community.

[00:55:11] Katie: And so for us, it’s actually getting back to the foundation. It’s not necessarily leaving it behind, but it’s leaving behind that mentality that just because it worked for us for 87 years and we were successful for 87 years doesn’t mean it’s going to service in the future. We can’t. Survive and help the current or the future generations if we’re still designed to focus on the last generations and the, or the previous.

[00:55:38] Katie: And so we’re kind of going at it with, we don’t wanna lose sight of our roots, but we also understand that you have to evolve. And I feel like it’s a scary thing. it is been a scary thing for our internal, our C-suite for a bit of, okay. But that’s what makes us, us is

[00:55:57] Katie: that credit union. It’s like we’re not leaving that we’re actually embracing it and leaning in heavier.

[00:56:02] Katie: We’re small but mighty and that’s what’s gonna carry us forward. But how do we pair this digital evolution with the, the soul of who we are? And so as we’re talking with this brand agency, it’s kind of like, I actually think that’s, that’s your superpower, is that everything you do. Digitally or in person or the phone.

[00:56:24] Katie: It feels like a human, it feels like I’m talking to Katie or it feels like I’m talking to Christina on marketing, or it feels like I’m talking to our branch manager

[00:56:32] Katie: every, every step of the way. And it’s, it’s one of those things that it’s, it’s not gonna happen overnight because we are behind digitally.

[00:56:40] Katie: And so as we step into this next era over the, you know, next year or so, it is going to be this pivotal moment where I think we’ll find that it’s seamless to retain who we are and what credit unions are about while still providing this digital experience that makes people feel that we’re so relatable.

[00:56:59] Katie: and how we do that is really just focusing on how would we want our, our digital experience to feel if I’m a, a user. And that’s how we do a lot of things. And that’s one of the reasons, and I know you said don’t talk about Typhoon, but we loved Typhoon because it was this. We knew we could create a vibe. We knew we could create this experience that felt like sunwest and it showed people like, Hey, look, we’re digital. We’re all in. We know what we’re doing here. We we’re professionals, but also we’re, we’re your neighbor

[00:57:30] Katie: down the street. We’re, we’re showing up in your community. And we’re doing, we’re rolling up our sleeves and we’re doing the, the heavy lifting, to transform your lives.

[00:57:38] Katie: But we just happen to be really good at digital too. And I think that if we lead with digital first, we’ll never compete. And I mean that by,

[00:57:47] Katie: we’re never gonna be chime. We are never going

[00:57:49] Katie: to be, um, you know, ally or SoFi or any of these fintechs. And we’re definitely not gonna be a chase. We don’t need to be, though.

[00:57:58] Katie: If we show up trying to battle Goliath in their arena, we’re gonna lose every time.

[00:58:04] Katie: But we do it on our stage. And the way that we do it is we fight for our members, we fight for what’s right, and we are, we’re not afraid to say the hard things and the truth out loud that other people in our industry are, it’s taboo, it’s controversial to speak up about.

[00:58:19] Katie: So that’s kind of that blend between both that I feel like is just gonna take us further into the future, and help us continue to grow.

[00:58:28] Josh: I mean, I think that’s such a fun place to be.

[00:58:30] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[00:58:30] Josh: I mean we, we’ve talked about this even before, right? Like you can’t, I mean, let’s just be completely honest. You cannot compete with a lot of your competitors in tech budget,

[00:58:42] Katie: Nope. Marketing budgets even.

[00:58:44] Josh: Branches in, you know, all sorts of things, right?

[00:58:49] Josh: So where can you compete and don’t try to compete in a sport you’re not good at, right? Like I’ve always loved, and you know, I even told somebody this the other day and then I didn’t actually do it, Katie, and I said I was gonna go look it up so I get it right the next time I use it, but I didn’t. But, so here we are.

[00:59:06] Josh: But I, I love the saying from, Einstein where he said something to the effect of like, you can’t judge a fish by his ability to climb a tree,

[00:59:13] Katie: Hmm.

[00:59:14] Josh: right? And so if you’re trying to go as a fish and climb trees like chases, you’re gonna suck.

[00:59:21] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[00:59:22] Josh: Like go swim. Go swim in the pond. You’re really good at that.

[00:59:25] Katie: Yep. Stick to what you’re exactly

[00:59:28] Josh: you know? And but I think to your point, and I’ll caveat this by saying like, I’m not perfect either, and I have not figured this out myself, but we’ve got so many great examples. Everybody immediately jumps to the, you know, blockbuster and

[00:59:44] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[00:59:45] Josh: We’ve got so many examples of it works until it doesn’t, and you never know the day that it’s gonna stop working.

[00:59:53] Josh: And so the question is to you, do you want to be the one that disrupts your process that’s working? Or do you want someone else to,

[01:00:03] Katie:

[01:00:03] Josh: you can be the one to disrupt your process that’s working, you control the timing and you’re ahead of it. If somebody else comes in, you’re already too late.

[01:00:12] Katie: Mm-hmm. I swear you and I speak the same language because I did a, a presentation to our board who has, been very, very progressive and, and onboard with where we’re going. And so we could not do it without them, you know, backing

[01:00:26] Katie: that. But I did a presentation on, marketing in the age of disruption, and I ended it with, that exact question, do you want to be disruptors or the disrupted? And that, I think, is something that at the time it was like, oh, that’s powerful. That feels good. But as you lean into it and you actually, I think back that it’s uncomfortable, right? It’s that that kind of mentality of being a disruptor is, can be painful because you are have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable.

[01:00:59] Katie: And I think as humans, we don’t like that. we want things to stay the same. And so I will say has been the thing that’s impressed me the most about our culture and our teams is we’ve asked them to completely flip everything they know on its head and just trust, trust the process that where we’re going is worth all the, those growing pains.

[01:01:23] Katie: And I think we’re going to come out in 18 months from now and look back and say like, whew, that was easy. It doesn’t feel easy in the moment, but

[01:01:31] Katie: it, it challenges you. And I think that that’s, we’re on the right track, but for me, disruption never stops. You can’t disrupt one time and then say, okay, let’s be complacent

[01:01:43] Josh: We did the

[01:01:43] Katie: We did it. Yeah. Ta-da. We, here’s a new app,

[01:01:46] Katie: guys, we’ll, we’ll see you, we’ll see you next year. and so I think that that’s something that culture has to support that.

[01:01:53] Katie: Otherwise, again, it feels like a, a shallow marketing, you know, ploy. So, um, we’ve done the work. we’ve done some deep rooted culture work.

[01:02:03] Katie: We’ve done the, the leadership work, and I think we’re poised to honestly future proof our credit union.

[01:02:10] Josh: Well, I, I appreciate that you said, you know, you also have to have the support of your fellow executive team, of your board, of your membership because, that is a challenge, right? Like we see, again, not just in credit unions, right? But we see so many times what happens if they’ve got a Katie DeFeo on staff?

[01:02:29] Josh: What happens if they have a visionary who’s willing to do the hard work, who’s willing to challenge the status quo? And then you go to your CEO and they go, that’s just not it. We, we wanna play it safe. Everybody’s bought this vendor, everybody’s taken this path, everybody’s done this change to their rates and their messaging.

[01:02:53] Josh: So it’s worked for them. It’s worked for us for 50 years. I love your passion, Katie, that’s great, but I’m gonna need you to squash that and I’m gonna need you to check mark the box like everybody else

[01:03:03] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[01:03:04] Josh: right? That’s really hard to combat. And so you’ve gotta have that kind of throughout the entire chain.

[01:03:13] Josh: You’ve gotta have that support, you’ve gotta have that alignment to we’re gonna be okay with taking some risks.

[01:03:19] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[01:03:20] Josh: you know, there’s gonna be some people that do, and there’s gonna be some people that don’t. And I guess history will be the one that decides what the right path is. But I think we’ve got enough examples that

[01:03:29] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[01:03:30] Josh: that works.

[01:03:31] Josh: It absolutely works to play it safe until it doesn’t,

[01:03:34] Katie: Until it

[01:03:34] Josh: a hundred percent sure when the day is gonna be, when it doesn’t work anymore.

[01:03:39] Katie: Hey, blockbuster

[01:03:40] Josh: Yeah, I

[01:03:41] Katie: you out right now.

[01:03:42] Josh: How you doing?

[01:03:43] Katie: Yep. But yeah,

[01:03:45] Josh: story about that, Katie, is it’s actually Hollywood video, not blockbuster, but same, same, right.

[01:03:51] Josh: So there’s a house, here in Portland,

[01:03:55] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[01:03:56] Josh: right on the Columbia River. And if you’re out like fishing on the Columbia or inner tubing or whatever, you can just kind of see it from up on down on the water. And it’s the only way you can see it. ’cause it’s got its own massive private road to get into.

[01:04:12] Josh: And I think it’s something like 70 or 75,000 square feet.

[01:04:17] Katie: Oh my gosh.

[01:04:18] Josh: I mean, it’s gargantuan,

[01:04:19] Katie: Yeah.

[01:04:20] Josh: It’s about 40% finished

[01:04:23] Katie: Wow.

[01:04:23] Josh: it’s been about 40% finished since Hollywood video

[01:04:28] Katie: Mm.

[01:04:28] Josh: business. ’cause it was the CEO’s house that he was building

[01:04:31] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[01:04:31] Josh: and,

[01:04:32] Katie: Yeah.

[01:04:33] Josh: finish it.

[01:04:34] Katie: Yeah. And it’s, it’s, so that’s, it’s sad, but it’s, I think it speaks volumes to being brave enough to accept that things are changing and to get on board. And it’s not that I went to my CEO on day one and said, Hey, let’s, let’s shake things up. Let’s, let’s flip the script on banking and rewrite the rules.

[01:04:55] Katie: It

[01:04:55] Katie: was, it, it took, you have to build that trust. And, but I think the more, I will say, elaborate my ideas got the more open-minded

[01:05:05] Katie: the team got because it was okay, we can see this is working. We can see that’s when, okay, we can see the KPIs. You, you have to have that, but then it’s now, there’s so much more trust and willingness to, all right, let’s try it.

[01:05:18] Katie: You know what, we’ve bought into this because. There’s been that track record. And so it’s, it’s not that I, I think that humans naturally don’t just say, okay, cool, change my entire life and one night, and I’m totally excited about it. But I do think it’s, this, if you set that stage and you can provide that vision, and I, that’s what I think a lot of us get wrong in, in this industry, is we just expect our teams to show up and

[01:05:44] Katie: do their jobs every day. But when we’ve shared this is why we’re here, this is why we do what we do, this is the future.

[01:05:52] Katie: And we just did a fireside chat, my CEO and I, and we filmed it and we sent it out to the entire organization. And it detailed our five year plan and it detailed where we’re

[01:06:01] Katie: going, how they’re involved with it.

[01:06:04] Katie: And so when we do this all, we launch all these new tech, tech stack. We’re not worried. We’re not worried that our teams are going to, push back or be afraid. We know that we’re building resiliency in them, and they’re excited, they’re ready for this because they know not only is it best for our members, but it’s actually best for us too.

[01:06:22] Katie: we get to be a part of this. So, it takes time. But we’re we, we found that sweet spot where everyone is rowing the boat in the same direction now.

[01:06:31] Josh: Well, and that’s what maintains the relevancy long term, right? Like to your point, you can’t just disrupt once. I mean, you think about the Hollywood video or blockbuster CEOs, right? At one point they disrupted the movie theater industry and they said, Hey, you guys make people get up, get dressed, put pants on, and go watch the movie at the time that you tell them to watch it.

[01:06:56] Josh: I’m gonna make it so they still have to get up, get dressed, put pants on, they can come get it for me, but then they can go watch it at home whenever they want. They can pause it to go to the restroom, like, I’m gonna make that. They disrupted that,

[01:07:09] Katie: Right. And then they stopped.

[01:07:11] Katie: Mm-hmm. Yep.

[01:07:14] Katie: They sat back and then Netflix comes along. Hey, do you wanna buy, do you wanna buy Netflix? Well, this is, this will be nothing. And now Netflix is huge,

[01:07:23] Katie: so it’s one of the most recognizable brands. And so it’s, I’ve actually used that story of, I’ve used the example of toys or us, in

[01:07:30] Katie: the past and some of those meetings where you are trying to get adoption into those, I, I don’t call them outlandish ideas, but they’re different.

[01:07:37] Katie: And it’s sharing that of, Hey, I’ve said before, do you wanna be toys or us? Do you wanna be Blockbuster? Of course, no one’s gonna answer that with Yes. So it, it helps them frame that mindset of, okay, I get it. If we stay the same and we refuse to grow, we’re really, we’re doing a disservice to our membership because we’re not ready to show up in the way they need us.

[01:07:58] Katie: So it’s it’s powerful.

[01:08:01] Josh: Well when you think, I mean, so I would say Netflix has been a really good example of what we were just talking about too, of how, you know, they originally made you, you know, rent the DVD and they’d ship it to you and then they’d, you’d ship it

[01:08:14] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[01:08:15] Josh: But then when streaming came about, they were right up on top of that.

[01:08:20] Josh: Then they started producing their own

[01:08:22] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[01:08:22] Josh: Like they’ve continued to disrupt even their own business model

[01:08:27] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[01:08:27] Josh: that they can kind of control that destiny. And guess what? Like nobody gets a CD shipped to them anymore from Netflix.

[01:08:35] Katie: right.

[01:08:37] Katie: They don’t, and,

[01:08:39] Katie: and I mean, I can’t even imagine that anymore, right? Just like, I can’t imagine two, two day shipping not being a thing or overnight. I mean, this morning to get my headphones for this, I’m sitting there like, I’m sitting there reading the document going, oh my gosh, I didn’t get that, the wired headphones.

[01:08:56] Katie: And so, Hey, I’m just gonna have this sent to me, and it, it, it arrives. But they disrupted and they

[01:09:02] Katie: continue to, and it’s, they leave the, the big box stores in the dust. And that’s something that I think credit unions do run the risk of if we, we stay in the zone that we’re comfortable with.

[01:09:13] Josh: Well, and you know, I think you would agree, I mean, what terrifies me the most about all of that is I don’t want credit unions to go away

[01:09:20] Katie: Right. I don’t either.

[01:09:21] Josh: is not better.

[01:09:24] Katie: No.

[01:09:24] Josh: Yes. It may be more convenient, right? Like it may be more convenient to bank with a chime or a SoFi,

[01:09:31] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[01:09:31] Josh: everything digitally and their digital is better, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[01:09:36] Josh: Man, I tell you what, like I’m really, really concerned about an America where

[01:09:43] Katie: That’s it.

[01:09:44] Josh: unions to look out for the next generation.

[01:09:46] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[01:09:46] Josh: scary to me.

[01:09:48] Katie: Yeah.

[01:09:49] Josh: we gotta keep up this fight. We gotta keep moving. We keep evolving and innovating, but stay focused on people as we do that.

[01:09:57] Katie: Right. And that’s, I feel like, you know, that’s why I always say it’s, it’s, it is a vibe. It is, it’s not a trend. It’s creating this atmosphere. and it’s fastest frictionless, but it has to be intentional because if we don’t control the narrative as credit unions, somebody else will.

[01:10:15] Katie: And it’s already happening.

[01:10:17] Katie: I mean, the eMarketer and I see stats all the time that say, that the Gen Z and millennials and the next generations are choosing the big banks and fintechs at a rapid rate that we have never seen before, and they’re not choosing credit unions. And it’s because we, we don’t talk about, we don’t, we don’t sell our story, right?

[01:10:37] Katie: We don’t, we don’t share what makes us unique. We kind of just assume people know and we forgot that, hey, not, not everyone is, is, uh, in the generation where credit unions were popular.

[01:10:49] Katie: And so how do we win them over again? It’s. You know, we’re not gonna lead the digital first method, but we can win them over by showing them that we get ’em, and that we’re here to help them on their journey.

[01:11:02] Katie: And that’s why we focus so heavily on those, the youth accounts

[01:11:06] Katie: and, you know, providing those experiences. Because, you know, if you would get them at that stage and you earn their loyalty, they’re more likely to, to be sticky and to stay with you throughout that journey. But you have to have digital, so you have to have both humanity and digital.

[01:11:22] Katie: And it’s, it, I think it’ll be an ongoing struggle, but the ones who get it right will be the ones who I think are around in 10, 15 years.

[01:11:30] Josh: Well, I think it’s a fun, it’s a fun exercise to say the least. Like, and I’m excited that we’ve got people like you that are really like, willing to challenge the status quo and really like, Hey, I’ve got a crazy freaking idea. It probably won’t work, but

[01:11:45] Katie: Can You tell my boss that? No. Yeah.

[01:11:49] Josh: know, like, but that, I think that’s what it’s gonna take.

[01:11:52] Josh: I think it’s gonna take, being willing to push the envelope a little

[01:11:55] Katie: right.

[01:11:56] Josh: and, being okay with that. Being okay with failure, being okay with doing things different. being kind of unabashedly who you are and saying like, this is, this is who Sunwest is and this is how we communicate. And that may not be right for everybody, but man, for who it is, right.

[01:12:12] Josh: For we’re gonna be really, really right for you, and you’re gonna know that and we’re gonna meet you where

[01:12:16] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[01:12:17] Josh: So, Katie, this has just been a blast talking to you about kind of how you view the ability to think about digital transformation as more of a vibe than just a piece of software. I, I thought that was a really, really cool approach to it.

[01:12:33] Josh: but before I let you go, I got two final questions for you. So, where do you go to get information? Where are you staying up to date on what’s happening in the industry or what are some of the different, you know, blogs or trends or things that you follow to stay up to date?

[01:12:47] Katie: Yeah, so I’ll give you the, professional, answer first, which is, um, I do really like bank dive,

[01:12:53] Katie: and e-marketer, financial brand of course, but honestly, TikTok and before you throw stones, I don’t go to TikTok for, obviously there, there’s not financial news on there. but I go there to kind of hear and listen to what are every day people saying

[01:13:11] Katie: about banking, and you’ll be surprised there’s some horror stories down there.

[01:13:15] Katie: And it’s, it’s things I share with our internal teams on, Hey, this is, this is what’s going on in our industry. How do we fix this?

[01:13:23] Katie: How do we call this out in a way that supports people? And so, I always say too, like, I read this article and no, I, it was on TikTok,

[01:13:31] Katie: but, but it, it’s helped shape I think a lot of just our understanding and the C-Suite for sure on what, what are people my age or, you know, how are they interacting with financial institutions?

[01:13:45] Katie: And it’s been eyeopening,

[01:13:46] Katie: I think, for them. I know

[01:13:48] Katie: it’s unique, but

[01:13:50] Josh: I think, uh, it, everybody is like laughing now thinking, cool, next time I get caught just watching TikTok at my desk, like, no, no, no. Katie DeFeo from Sunwest Credit Union said, this is my best source of pulse of what’s happening. So I’m doing market research Well, if

[01:14:09] Katie: I don’t know about Best Source, but yes. Good one. Yeah.

[01:14:13] Josh: well, if people want to come to you as the source, if they wanna connect with you, or even just like follow or watch some of Sun West’s journey and kind of how you’re doing things, how can they do that?

[01:14:24] Katie: Yeah, so you find me on LinkedIn, Katie DeFeo, uh, or my sunwest.com. And then we are on TikTok as sunwest, uh, FCU, and Instagram, Facebook, we’re, we’re everywhere. So

[01:14:37] Josh: You know, I’m not even on TikTok, but now I feel

[01:14:40] Katie: probably a good

[01:14:41] Josh: I wanna watch, your, Sunwest. Tiktoks now.

[01:14:44] Katie: Yeah. And it’s, it’s just getting even better. So exciting. Oh,

[01:14:48] Josh: That’s cool. I mean, it is. I I think that’s why I’ve always loved, you know, the marketing side of the house is like, this is really where, I will have to introduce you one day.

[01:14:58] Josh: I don’t think you’ve met, uh, our marketing director, Kevin. But I absolutely love Kevin to death because he’s, he’s very much like you. He’s somebody who’s so, so good at like having the fun, subjective, abstract elements of marketing, but he’s also very thoughtful, very data-driven, very like doer.

[01:15:18] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[01:15:18] Josh: but he always jokes.

[01:15:19] Josh: He’s like, everybody thinks we’re so we’re here playing with crayons. He’s like, it’s so much more than that.

[01:15:24] Katie: Yep.

[01:15:25] Josh: But at the same time, he’s like, but we also do get to play with crayons and it’s kind of a lot of

[01:15:28] Katie: But we also play with Crays. Yep, exactly.

[01:15:32] Josh: Well, again, it’s been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for coming and being a guest on the Digital Banking podcast.

[01:15:39] Katie: Thanks for having me.

[01:15:40] Thank you for listening to the Digital Banking Podcast, powered by Tyfone. Find more episodes on digital banking podcast.com or subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your favorite podcasts.