Caitlin Brama: Leading Credit Unions with Empathy
“I also share that same philosophy that everyone should spend some time in the call center. Even back when I was a call center supervisor, you did your week of training in the call center because it allows you to be exposed to everything. All the pain points, all the successes that are going on in the credit union. You dabble a little bit in everything.”
Episode Summary
In the latest episode of the Digital Banking Podcast, host Josh DeTar interviewed Caitlin Brama, the CEO of Farm Credit Employees Federal Credit Union. Brama shared her unconventional journey to becoming a credit union CEO, highlighting her transition from a branch manager role and the challenges she faced along the way. Her story underscored the importance of resilience and adaptability in the financial sector.
Brama emphasized the need for credit unions to stay relevant by doubling down on their core mission and continually self-evaluating their decisions. She discussed the significance of empathy in leadership, illustrating how it helps in pushing her credit union forward and fostering a strong connection with members. Her insights provided valuable lessons for leaders aiming to innovate within their organizations.
Throughout the conversation, Brama and DeTar explored the impact of community involvement and transparency on building trust and engagement. Brama’s passion for the credit union movement and her commitment to growth and continuous improvement resonated throughout the episode, offering listeners practical advice and inspiration.
Key Insights
⚡ The Importance of Empathy in Leadership
Empathy in leadership is a crucial element in driving the success of a credit union. Emphasizing the human aspect, this approach fosters stronger connections with members and ensures decisions are made with their best interests in mind. Empathetic leadership also helps in navigating challenges and maintaining a motivated team. By leading with empathy, leaders can build a culture of trust and transparency. This, in turn, enhances member satisfaction and loyalty.
⚡ Embracing Innovation and Relevance
Staying relevant in the rapidly evolving financial sector requires constant innovation and self-evaluation. Credit unions must regularly assess their strategies and operations to ensure they align with their core mission and the changing needs of their members. This involves being open to new ideas and adapting to industry trends without losing sight of foundational principles. Embracing innovation helps credit unions remain competitive and better serve their communities. It also paves the way for sustainable growth and long-term success.
⚡ The Value of Community Involvement
Active involvement in community initiatives strengthens the relationship between credit unions and their members. Engaging in local events and supporting community projects demonstrates a genuine commitment to the well-being of the area served. This involvement not only enhances the credit union’s image but also fosters a sense of belonging and loyalty among members. Community engagement is a powerful tool for building trust and differentiating credit unions from other financial institutions. It highlights the unique value proposition of credit unions as member-focused organizations dedicated to making a positive impact.
Guest At A Glance
Caitlin Brama began her career in credit unions over a decade ago, transitioning from a branch manager to CEO. Her journey included key roles in lending and call center supervision, where she gained a deep understanding of member needs and operational challenges.
Josh DeTar: [00:00:00] Welcome to another episode of the Digital Banking Podcast. My guest today is Caitlin Brama, the CEO of Farm Credit Employees Federal Credit Union. Caitlin took the very traditional and expected path to credit union CEO. She went from branch manager of a different credit union straight into the CEO chair here.
See what I mean? Super typical. Trust me on this one. There’s a story behind this and it sets up what you’re going to hear today from Caitlin. So we’ll get into that in a second. But first and foremost, Caitlin’s a straight shooter. You know what you’re going to get with her and you always know where she stands.
As with all of us, our lives to this point influence who we are and how we operate and Caitlin is no different. She learned early on and really started to operationalize later in life, the concept that you can control what you can control and you have to let everything else go many times. All you can [00:01:00] control is your attitude and your response.
And to be genuine through those circumstances, transparency is key. So you’re going to get a lot of transparency from Caitlin on today’s episode, starting with the fact that she’s pissed. Okay. Those are my words, not hers, but I’m reading between the lines. Credit unions need to double down on their why and need to be ruthlessly looking into the mirror and self evaluating.
Is this the right decision for the future relevance of our credit union and our industry? Or is this the easy mail, it is the answer? Farm Credit Employees, FCU has a mere 17 million in assets, but do not for a second let that give you the misconception of the impact they have on their members lives and the community that they serve.
This is what Caitlin refuses to lose sight of. She’s taken the bull by the horns and is leading with empathy to push her credit union and anyone that’ll listen to her into the next generation of credit unions. [00:02:00] So just like the Brama family does on family weekend movie night, you’re going to want to get your popcorn out for this one.
So Caitlin, welcome to the show. Thanks for joining me.
Caitlin Brama: Yeah. Thanks so much for having me, Josh. I’m super excited.
Josh: We were joking about this before we even started recording. So I got the really cool opportunity to meet Caitlin at an event for the Children’s Miracle Network Hospitals in Orlando months ago. And, just like a lot of times with guests of the show, it was like five minutes into, I was like bugging her about being on the podcast.
I was like, yeah, you can just stop talking now. I need to get this on recording. Like you are my people. But I think what was so cool about that was that’s just one other area that I didn’t even touch on and kind of your intro. We haven’t really even talked about being on the podcast about is, you’ve been so actively involved in the community work that credit unions are a part [00:03:00] of, and that was actually how we kind of got connected. But, I’ve been looking forward to this and yeah, we were talking about when we met way back when we were like, Oh, when’s the first time we can actually record.
Oh, it’s this date. It’s like months away. And then here we are. And all of a sudden it’s here and it’s July. So I’m glad I finally got you on the show.
Caitlin: Yeah, me too. I know, like I was saying, it’s just, we were scheduling this date and it was there shortly after meeting in Florida and I was like, dang, it’s so far away. I’m so excited. Like, this is such a really awesome opportunity to be a part of. And I just have so much to talk about credit unions.
I mean, I literally could talk five business days straight about the credit union movement and the credit union difference that, like, I was chomping at the bit for July 1st to come here and I mean it flew by, of course, because it’s just crazy busy. But yeah super excited.
Josh: Yeah. I think that’s one of the things that I really love about people like you. It’s like, you’re a total credit union [00:04:00] dork. And I think I can, that with all and respect, and you’re not going to push back on it. Like it’s, you’re the type of person that annoys the heck out of your Uber driver.
Cause you’re like, have you heard about a credit union?
Caitlin: And passengers on airplanes, which I feel is a little bit better these days. So, yeah, no one is safe, to say. They’re all going to hear, especially if I’m coming high off of a conference or whatnot. Everyone is pretty to hear about the credit union difference, especially what we’re doing in Minnesota.
Josh: Well, okay, so we got to start with a little bit of your story. Because what I think is super fascinating about the credit union industry in specific, right, is there is a tremendous amount of people that have long tenure and sometimes even at the same exact credit union. And what that ultimately leads to is a lot of people that have very, kind of almost like textbook career paths. [00:05:00] It’s like I started at the credit union as a teller. I worked my way up to this, this, this, this, this. And now I’m this and I absolutely love that about the industry because there’s a lot of promotion from within. But sometimes it also creates the challenge of how do you bring fresh ideas, new perspectives, new ideas, unique ways of solving problems into an organization that is just constantly kind of recycling its culture. So I think there’s a huge blessing and a curse to that. And I think you’re a really cool example of how you can do both of those things simultaneously. And it’s still keeping people in the industry.
So they’re passionate and they’re experienced and they bring knowledge of the industry, but at the same time they bring kind of a new feisty blood to it. So maybe just talk us through a little bit of your journey. [00:06:00]
Caitlin: I think that’s exactly it. So I started in credit unions about 10 years ago, just a little over. Finally hit that decade mark, which it feels like literally I just started last year. It’s wild to me. But I started at my first credit union. And was with them for close to four years.
I was just looking to get out of retail. I absolutely despised becoming the Grinch over Christmas, working the long hours and it just wasn’t filling my cup anymore. And so I was looking for a little bit more stability. I was young, I was looking just to still have a life outside of work as well, living on your own.
You’re young and you’re trying to figure everything out. I wasn’t always the best at financials back then, but just looking for that more stability. So I applied for an entry level position, the member service representative And I was able to get my foot in the door at my first credit union [00:07:00] And I just thought about quitting about 15 different times, at least that first year.
And it was hard. It was an uphill battle. I just felt like, you know what, this is something that I need to stick with, though. I need to see it through. I am a firm believer in that because I know my own capabilities, and honestly, I’m very competitive with myself, too. I won’t let myself defeat myself.
If that makes sense. But I saw it through in that first year. I just, it was like a light switch hit and I flipped. I understood my job. My drawer was finally balancing every single day and I found a new passion in life and I thought, Hey, maybe this could be a career, who knows what, who knows what else does have to offer.
I had my daughter that first year and before I went out on maternity leave, I started, kind of, training myself a little bit on [00:08:00] lending. I just thought that was something that maybe that could be my next step moving into. I may have made a really good friend with a guy who was a lender there at the credit union.
And he kind of took me under his wing and was like, sure, I’ll help you. Here are some things to get educated on. He handed me some loan files to review, to understand the do’s and don’ts of how our credit union was operating with loans and whatnot. I came back from maternity leave and pretty much got instantaneously that promotion to a lender and started opening accounts, doing all those fun things for six months. And then a call center supervisor position opened up and thankfully was the only one who applied. So that was an easy promotion for me. but I loved it. It helped me strengthen some skills that I was already working towards.
Still got a lend, still backed up the teller line, [00:09:00] but just gave me a new perspective on building relationships and building that rapport and becoming a product expert, not only for our members, but for our staff at our branch location and the organization as well. I absolutely loved it. I am so thankful for that first credit union, giving me that opportunity to get my foot in the door.
Because, I mean, I wouldn’t be where I’m at today without finding a credit union. I mean, back then I had no idea what credit unions were all about, but quickly found a love and passion for them. Almost four years in, I ended up getting a promotion at a different credit union to a branch manager. And so it stuck out with them for two and a half years. I poached away, found another credit union, similar position, still branch managing, but just kind of different culture, different atmosphere, different organization as a whole, similar assets. But I [00:10:00] felt like I had obtained everything that I could get out of that previous credit union.
So I made the leap and it was a little bit more flexible for my family at that time too. So, yeah, I was a branch manager again for about another two and a half years and we ended up, our credit union had merged with a much larger institution at that time, collectively after the merger, we’re about 2 billion in assets coming from about 200 million.
And, I just found, this opportunity came up. It came out of nowhere unexpectedly. And it’s, it’s because of networking and having a colleague in the industry who just reached out and was like, Hey, do you know anyone who might be willing to have this conversation with this credit union. The CEO is looking to retire and like, yeah, me, duh. Hello. Like, absolutely. I’m willing to have a conversation and knew that it [00:11:00] was just that. And it was super exciting. And like, I questioned myself a little bit, a couple of times here and there, like branch manager to CEO, like, that’s wild. Like, can this be done?
But I, again, control the things you can control. Just a conversation, putting one foot in front of the other and not really had any intention to leave my credit union. I didn’t see, I wasn’t seeking out anything like a merger was, that’s an uphill battle in itself. That’s tough beans, but you know what?
I was looking to see it through. And just as I always do with every position I’ve ever held, but this was an opportunity you can’t say no to. And I had, I had done some things in my career to help me get the confidence to where I was at. September of 2022 to be like, yeah, I’ll, let’s take a leap of faith.
I don’t have all the answers, but why not give it a shot? So now I got the job. I was sweet. [00:12:00] I got it. I’ve been here for a year and a half and it’s just wild to be where I’m at today. I’ve done a lot of things along the way to help build my career to this point. And, yeah, that’s a whole chapter in itself.
Josh: I want to stick a pin in. We’re going to come back to the whole CEO thing, but before we do, I want to get your perspective on as an outsider looking in to the credit union. One of my favorite groups of people to ever talk to the call center.
Caitlin: Yeah.
Josh: They always have the absolute best pulse on what’s happening at that credit union.
Caitlin: Absolutely.
Josh: For us as a technology provider to the credit union, like if I want to know how people are feeling, what’s their feedback, like I go straight to the call center. I love to just sit and just talk with [00:13:00] call center folks. And I feel like the insight that you gain from those conversations is so incredibly valuable.
But as now a leader of a credit union, like how, how do you think that experience shaped just how you look at and think of things. Because I have to imagine like every single leader should spend some time with the call center
Like what I learned is fascinating. I can’t imagine what you would learn as somebody who’s actually an integral part of shaping the strategy of the credit union, being a part of the call center.
Caitlin: Yeah. Like, no pun intended, you’re literally the lifeline between your organization and your membership. I mean, I also share that same philosophy that everyone should spend some time in the call center. I mean, even back when I was a call center supervisor. Like you did your week of training in the call center because it allows you to [00:14:00] really be exposed to everything.
All the pain points, all the successes that are going on in the credit union. You get to be, you get a dabble a little bit in everything. You’ve got your online banking, your remote deposit capture, transferring funds. What’s my bank account status, like all of the different things.
And it just, it dive right in. And I mean, that was actually probably one of my most favorite positions I’ve ever held because I learned the most. I became the product expert on our system on our core system. Figured out all the ways that it could work to benefit our members to more efficiently make everyone else’s jobs happen in the credit union that we are serving too.
I think that, you know, members are different when they’re here face to face as opposed to on the phone. Like, you don’t have that face looking back at you on the phone. So I feel like they have a little bit more of a backbone. They’re a little bit more willing to give you kind [00:15:00] of the business if they feel that that’s the case. not gonna lie about it.
Josh: It’s easier behind a phone.
Caitlin: Oh, it sure is. I’ve had my fair share of moments where it just wasn’t my favorite day or that wasn’t my favorite member that day because they told me what they felt, but it’s nothing personal. It’s all about their relationship with the credit union and they felt comfortable enough to be able to voice their opinion and who am I to balk at that?
But, yeah, I think it is so beneficial. They tell you straight up what’s going right and what’s going wrong, and it’s your opportunity there to take what they say and make some change if necessary, pass along the information. But yeah, I think it is so beneficial to be in that call center. You learn so much, whether you like it or not, it’s coming, it’s coming at you.
Josh: Well, what I think is interesting too, is if you look at it in terms of just the engagement that members have with the credit union, the number one highest [00:16:00] engagement point in terms of sheer volume is going to be digital.
Caitlin: Yeah.
Josh: It’s the number one branch in terms of transaction traffic, in terms of, logins, i.e. my interactions with the financial institution and then on the other end of the spectra in terms of probably the depth of engagement and relationship in person visiting with the teller line is going to be your highest, but your lowest in terms of volume of interactions. So you have this really low volume but incredibly high touch and then you’ve got this incredibly high volume comparatively relatively low touch and the call center is kind of in between all of that.
Like, they’re taking a significantly higher volume than in branch traffic and they’re having more in depth, more personal conversations than digital is. And like you were saying, I mean, [00:17:00] they probably touch just about every single system interaction point that the credit union has. So they’re still doing things like an in person teller would.
They’re also still doing the things and even helping with the things of digital.
Caitlin:
Josh: And yeah, you’re servicing everything from just the aunt Edna calling to ask what her balance is, even though we all know like she could really easily check that on mobile on her own. It’s probably even savvy enough.
She just wants to call you to talk to you anyway, to help somebody through a complicated loan process. To help with a dispute or get a new debit card issued. I mean, it’s, it’s the whole gamut, So I just, I feel like you get a really, really good 360 degree view of the credit union just being in the call center.
Caitlin: You do. Yeah. And I feel like there’s different levels of membership. And that’s exactly what you’re speaking to is when they visit you in person or when they are calling on the phone or when they, when they’re just logging into their online [00:18:00] banking or they send a chat through that electronic service.
I mean, it’s all about their time and that’s really important to them, just as equally important as their finances. So you have the people who are quick and ready and maybe this is a little bit generational too. And then you’ve got the members who visit in person who do, they just, you know what, they want that human interaction.
They love that brick-and-mortar mentality. They don’t care for the online banking as much. And then you’ve got the people who were kind of a hybrid of both, where they’re. They’re busy, they’re working, they’re 9 to 5, but it’s still important to them, so they’re gonna call you. And it’s probably while they’re in a car ride, going from one meeting to the other meeting or whatever their day might entail.
But I think that it’s a really good perspective to have. I really appreciate it. I mean, I love being able to interact with members on any level, but the level of authenticity comes through a little bit more when you’re on the phone. Because they do, they have that backbone, that little bit of extra backbone.
And if [00:19:00] they’re making the time to call you, it’s pretty important to them as well. Whatever interpretation or level that they see fit, it’s still important. And it’s, it’s great.
Josh: And just some of the different experiences and exposure you’ve had. I want to come back to, so branch manager of one credit union, CEO of another credit union. But I think there’s also a really interesting story and I don’t want to, you’ve kind of given me some of this, but I don’t want to, I don’t want to tell the story.
So hopefully I can just lead you to go down the story. But, your credit union, essentially the CEO stepping down, is retiring. And they’re trying to decide what is the fate of this credit union. And when I kind of made your introduction and I was like, Caitlin’s pissed. And I think a part of that is, as somebody who has seen the real value and [00:20:00] differentiation of community-focused credit unions, the thought of losing one of those was like soul crushing to you.
That’s kind of what led you into this role, So, if you could kind of talk through a little bit of that story and just, what was happening, what brought you in and what was the kind of the passion behind like, no, I’m literally, I just came to the rodeo. I’m not even a bull rider, but nobody’s out there riding that thing.
So I’m gonna throw myself over the rail. I’m gonna grab that thing by the horns. I’m gonna ride that bowl.
Caitlin: Yeah. So, the power of networking. One of, like, the key essentials to this job. I promote it to my staff. I promote it to anyone I mentor. I mean, networking is key and it’s essential, I think, for this industry to keep moving forward. It’s just like that, that is thought of like moving credit unions.
You get different perspectives when you talk to [00:21:00] different levels of organizations, different titles, what not. When I got the call or the message about this job, this opportunity coming up, it was kind of like that last ditch effort, unfortunately. Probably not ideal to have a branch manager coming in, but I think there was a little bit of desperation needed at that point where they opened up the talent pool a little bit more, just to see what was out there because they were kind of striking out from what I know is that the, my predecessor, he had been looking for a couple of years, knew, knew his timeline personally of when about he wanted to retire and started looking, which is great, looking for a replacement. Always beneficial, That’s kind of what we want for retirements is to find a replacement, not a merger.
And so, they had been looking, but I think they were just [00:22:00] striking out. He had disassociated from our, the Minnesota Credit Union Network League. And so, that gets a little tough, especially a smaller credit union, your networking capabilities aren’t always necessarily there. You’re a small shop.
You got to make sure the credit union is running day to day and your members are being serviced because they’re what’s most important. So kind of being disassociated from the network as a whole and some of those peers in the industry, it was kind of slim pickings for him. Fortunately enough, he did have a connection and that connection reached out and it’s like, Hey, we’re looking for someone to fill the position. He’s not very familiar with our, with the talent pool in our state, but do you know of any young professionals, not even necessarily young, but do you know anyone who might be looking to make a change, looking to have a conversation?
And I said, yeah, duh. [00:23:00] You’re talking to one right now. Like, obviously I would absolutely adore having a conversation. I was riding the high of just coming off of the Minnesota Credit Union Network’s inaugural year of the trailblazers Executive Readiness Program, a 12-month program kind of gives you a peek behind the curtain of all things operational behind the scenes for the credit union. So that was pretty cool.
And then also coming off the they developed a tri state mentorship program which partners Minnesota, Wisconsin and the Montana Leagues And so I had just completed my 12-month program being a mentee, and I had a mentor of a CEO out in Montana who was fabulous. So literally these two things just come off of, and I’m like, yeah, I have, I feel like I have what it takes.
I love to have a conversation, and it’s just a conversation, putting that foot in front of the other, and seeing where it leads to, cause who would [00:24:00] say no? So yeah, I mean, I found out afterwards that kind of where we were at, the organization was at, was either we found someone to fill these shoes in the next six months or else we’re merging outside of Minnesota.
And I didn’t necessarily know that second piece of information going into these conversations and essentially the interview. But yeah, it’s just, you never want to lose a credit union. You don’t want, merger is tough as it is, because someone always loses out. You’re always down a credit union representing in your state, but especially one going out of state, that’s really the last thing that you ever want. So, I’m super glad I said yes. It’s one of those chances that don’t always come around. Definitely didn’t have all the answers ahead of time, but I knew who I was and what motivated me.
And I love this credit union. I, you hit the nail on the head, I am a [00:25:00] credit union dork. I drink the Kool Aid. And so, yeah, it just, those were the two opportunities. Those were the two chances for a credit union. Either they filled a position in the six months or else they were merging out of state and never ever wanted to see that.
Josh: I would love to have been a fly on the wall of like the closed door meetings of your board after those interviews, because in all reality, like kind of a cool testament to them, for giving you this opportunity in all seriousness. I mean, but, well, like how, what did that process go? Like, so you show up on day one for that first interview and you’re like, Hey, what’s up?
I wasn’t on your radar at all. Like I’m a branch manager of a different credit union down the road. But, yeah. I think I could run this ship. Like how did that conversation go?
Caitlin: I first met with my predecessor and his kind of right hand gal at the time they’d both been here for 40 years and it was more of just that get to know you a conversation. I [00:26:00] like the day that I was reached out to about just having this conversation, called my mentor. I was like, oh my god.
What did I just get myself into? What do I do? I said yes, so what do I do from here? And of course, she talked me off the ledge because she knew me very well at this point and just said let’s take it. Let’s have this conversation. How exciting I mean. We were just six months earlier talking about getting promoted to an AVP and now we’re totally turned and like oh my god big job, big girl time.
And so, that first conversation was just, I walked into it even more confident because knowing that I had nothing to lose. This was a really cool opportunity on the horizon. If it just didn’t pan out, it didn’t pan out. But what an opportunity to just have that conversation, be in that room.
And so just talking to my predecessor about where they had been, where they’re currently at [00:27:00] and where he thought the credit union would go and he was very adamant. He, I mean, has been here for 40 years. He loves the credit union. He breathes the credit union. He is all that these members have known for 40 years and so he’s like, I don’t want this credit union to merge.
I want them to continue their successes to continue being a viable option for our members. I think that we are a really good credit union. We have a lot to offer. Sure, there’s areas of opportunity, but I think I don’t want this credit union to go under. And I kind of ran my resume out loud to him and gave him all of the different spiels about why I thought that I could come in and kind of live out that vision that he had.
We instantly clicked it was just a really good opportunity and he’s like, yep. I’m gonna pass your information along to our board and then they’ll reach out to [00:28:00] you and see where this goes. Probably like a month and a half later, I had heard from the board of directors. Of course. I was in Madison, Wisconsin at this time attending the developer and educator program that week long and certification and I got the call and I told a couple of people that I quickly became friends with I’m like, oh my God, this is happening.
Like I hadn’t heard anything for like six weeks and now all of a sudden I’m getting this interview and we went over there super supportive as credit union people always are. And I went for it and probably completely over prepared because that’s just who I am as a person and I try thinking of all the different angles at all the different times, but met with the board virtually because it’s where our membership is across 15 different states.
So, of course, our board isn’t all in state, isn’t all in Minnesota. So we connected with all five of the board members at that time and [00:29:00] had an interview and it just went so well. They’re so great. Like, I cannot praise this board enough. They are so supportive. They’re awesome. And they weren’t looking for all of the skills.
They were very open to the idea that they might get someone in here that you have to teach some skills, too, and the learning curve will be quite extensive for a little while. But if they’ve got the core in it, they have the passion, the drive to do it. That’s what they were mostly looking for.
And super appreciative that they were able to see that in me because I don’t have a year and a half and I still don’t have all the answers. And I don’t, I know I’m not going to have all the answers for a very long time, but they took a shot on me and it’s been pretty great so far.
Josh: It’s really cool. I think even to, I mean, I talked to, not just CEOs of credit unions, but, [00:30:00] across the board. I think any good leader will tell you, the day I have all the answers today, I’m dead and gone. Like it’s an active learning thing. And seriously, I will echo that sentiment.
Like kudos to the board for recognizing, I mean, Yeah, absolutely. To some degree you have to have on paper, a certain skill set, knowledge-based experience to be able to do the certain expectations of X, Y, Z role, whatever it may
Caitlin:
Josh: But at the same time, I mean, the hard thing is to hire for culture and to hire for passion and dedication.
And those are the things you can’t teach. You were telling me before we started recording, like emotional intelligence, it’s not something you can, that you can train into your training program when people start, and, you need the right people for the right roles and like, yeah, I probably don’t want a brain surgeon that’s like never taken [00:31:00] a day of, know, brain surgeon school.
Like that’s, that’s probably a no-go for me. But when you can find areas to say, Hey, you know what, they don’t actually have to have all the answers on this on day one, but if they’re the personality, it’s going to find the answers and they’re going to find the right answers. Then absolutely. Like, let’s do this.
Caitlin:
Josh: And I think, just to, to get you on this, when I ingested it was like, Caitlin’s pest. I don’t think you have a bone in your body. That’s like that type of personality necessarily. But like what always struck me in our conversations is that you just, you were passionate was just not the right word.
And, like you said, I don’t want to see credit unions emerging out, especially out of state and completely dissolving out of the communities that they serve. Because that’s kind of the core mission. Like that’s the why. And you can look back on plenty of [00:32:00] episodes we’ve had on this podcast of people talking about the importance of having a lot of credit unions, a lot of community banks, and a lot of options for consumers based on how those institutions serve them and their communities.
And, if all we have is five big banks here in the U. S., I think the losers in that equation is the American public,
Caitlin: Absolutely.
Josh: And so I think that’s where I’m getting a little choosy with my words, but like, I just didn’t feel like passionate as the right word for you because you’re so much more than that.
You’ve always come across as that, as you were like, no, you know what? Like, yes, you didn’t necessarily learn this until after the fact, but like, I can tell it’s even more motivating for you after the fact that you’re like, man, we could have lost this credit union. If somebody like me didn’t step up and say, I’m just.
No, like we’re gonna keep pushing this. So like, what [00:33:00] is, what has been that fire and that passion and how has that changed since you took on this role?
Caitlin: Yeah. For sure. Like, it’s just, small credit unions are so relevant and they’re so important for the credit union movement as a whole. I think that they have a very big voice in the grand scheme of things. And it’s frustrating as a smaller credit union when we’re working so diligently, so hard to remain relevant, to remain on topic for our members and our potential members and, and all of that, we’ll see these larger institutions who feel like they’re selling out.
Now, mind you, I don’t know all the intricacies of why one credit union makes a decision over the other, why one chooses merger over succession plan and building their staff internally or even just looking externally. You know, it’s hard being in this position and seeing those [00:34:00] shifts happen in the industry because what it feels like is at the end of the day if I see a multi billion dollar credit union who is throwing in the towel and says we’re not gonna we we don’t see our relevancy anymore. What does that mean for me, you know when you have all of the resources and all of the opportunities within your organization and you have such a footprint on your membership already and in your geographical location.
I mean, that’s a tough pill to swallow because I wholeheartedly believe in this credit union. I love this credit union. I think there’s so much untapped potential here that has not been explored, that wasn’t set as a previously to me coming on board, that I’m going to do everything that it takes to tap into all that potential and to reach every corner of this membership and honestly, it’s a disservice to my members if I don’t, if I [00:35:00] look at the future and be like, well I’m not gonna survive so I may as well give in now because why wait for that day?
I just think that that’s not the best solution. It’s not the way to serve and to live by the people helping people concept. We’re here to do right by our members and our field of membership and when we stop doing that, when we stop believing in what we’re doing on a day to day basis and what our purpose is I mean, it’s just that much of a disservice to U.S. citizens. I mean, it’s not just my credit union I’m working for. I’m working for the movement as a whole on our state level and as in the country and worldwide. I mean, there’s so many levels to this movement and every single credit union, active credit union right now, plays a role in that and it starts from the top.
It starts from that [00:36:00] Board of Directors and that CEO. Like what I do, the moves that I make sets a precedence for the rest of my staff and those members that I serve. So it’s like, it’s just, it’s so frustrating because we do it. We have a special organization. We have a special industry that we’re serving right now.
We have such a purpose. It’s, I mean, it’s beautiful. We want financial wellbeing for all in it, in a country that has a lot of turmoil right now. Like it just feels that much better to do what we’re doing to serve our members to not gouge them on fees and to provide services and benefits and, and all of those things for them and generations to come.
So it is frustrating to see mergers happen at such a large level and how quickly they’re happening and how more frequently they’re coming. It’s just, it’s tough. [00:37:00] I mean, I see it. I’ve seen an announcement of a merger, it feels like every week. And not just in Minnesota, but across the country, and it’s, it’s daunting. It’s hard to keep your head above water when you see that happening constantly.
Josh: You may hate me for this or you may
Caitlin: Yeah.
Josh: But as you were talking, like literally I pictured you with a Spartan helmet on and like King Leonidas, using that analogy, it is, it’s like, you think about the movie 300. And it’s like, they should have absolutely been like, that dude has a way bigger army I do.
Like we should just pack this one in and call it a day. Like, does he like his grapes on a silver platter or a gold. Like, let’s just make sure we make this dude happy. But no, they said, screw this. Like we’re going to fight to the bloody end. [00:38:00] even though that just sets a precedent. It says we may be small, but we’re mighty and we can have an impact.
And just as you were talking, it really made me think like that is kind of the mission you have like taken charge of. Is this, yeah, it’s, if you’ve got big credit unions, big community banks saying, you know what? These FinTechs have a lot more money than we do. They’re coming in and they’re taking our lunch and we just can’t remain relevant.
So we’re just going to bow out or you know what? We can’t do it at our size. So we’re going to merge with another so we can be a little bit bigger and a little bit more competitive to your point. If you’re not in the inner workings of those decisions, obviously we don’t know all the details and sometimes there’s tons of factors that go into those things kind of back to what you were talking about earlier, like control, which can control. And sometimes you have to admit that you can’t control all of it. But at the same time, I think there [00:39:00] really is a case to be made for the little group of 300 to stand up and be like, Hey, no, you know what? Like we have to continue to demonstrate our relevance.
Because, again, we can argue this till we’re blue in the face, but like the disservice is, we have five major banks in the U. S. and that’s who you get to choose for your financial services needs. Like, who is going to lose in that is your middle class squeezed folks, it’s going to be the people that have small businesses that need special lending considerations.
I had a really cool conversation with, Seth Schaefer from Rivermark Credit Union recently and like his credit union very specifically targets members in the Alice Index, which I didn’t even know what it was or existed until Seth and it’s, talking about people who technically live above the poverty [00:40:00] line and therefore don’t qualify for all these aids and assistance programs.
But actually don’t make enough money to survive. And so how do you cater to people? And you cannot tell me that without small credit unions, like your 17 million credit union, those people are really, and truly going to get the service they need to have an opportunity at the American dream. I just don’t think it exists.
So there really is something to be said. We gotta get fired up about, yeah, no, maybe not make sense for every single credit union to merge or not merge. But like, there is definitely gotta be some people picking up the charge and saying, Hey, we’re the 17 million credit union that come hell or high water.
Like we’re going to be here and we’ll be fighting.
Caitlin: And I don’t want to discredit the fact that I understand out there that there are some mergers that are absolutely necessary. Absolutely. I can respect that. [00:41:00] It’s just, it’s these things. These mergers are happening. I just feel like we’re throwing in a towel and it’s I want to understand why I’m such a why person I’ll maybe almost to a fault sometimes because I feel like I need to understand the why for every single thing I hear, but like I feel like we really do sometimes like why are we doing it and I speculation would lead to. People are losing their why’s they’re losing the why are we even in this we’re growing, we’re growing, we’re growing. We’re getting bigger and bigger and we’re losing sight. It’s the focus of why we even started here.
There’s a billion dollar credit union in Minnesota. They just have it. They got it. They know their why and their CEO knows their why. And he explains it and he lives by it and he repetitively speaks about it. Like in every instance, they know their why. They understand that they serve the underserved.
They are going to provide every resource that they possibly can back to their memberships [00:42:00] back to the consumer, back to all walks of life. They don’t just serve as one pool of members and the rest are to defend themselves. I mean, that’s what credit unions were started on right is to serve the underserved to serve the underbanked and I feel like a lot of times when you start growing and you start becoming bigger. You lose sight of that.
You lose that focus. And we’re just in it for, well, how do we keep that momentum? How do we keep growing? The true growth is within your membership. How are you making their lives better? Today? Tomorrow? How are you? Banking is so generational. How are you not just impacting their lives today, but for their kids and their grandkids?
And you have to, it’s, it’s more than just the now. We need to focus on how we are going to continue that impact down the road? Not just what’s going to benefit us today or by year end. And I think that is so important that we give up on [00:43:00] occasions if we forget that we forget to look at the big picture.
Josh: Do you mind if I give you my hot take? I’m curious what you think. I’m gonna probably get some, I might get some emails from like Ron Chevlin or Jim Maroose after this but here’s my hot take. I think one of the biggest problems for community financial institutions is simply not understanding.
Like I’ll say it pretty bluntly, like understanding and combating customer acquisition in 2024. It’s not what it once was.
Caitlin: No. Mm
Josh: Especially in banking, you know what I would love to see that I don’t really see? I would love to see some CMOs at credit unions make some fat paychecks. I’ll see some really highly paid people that really understand scaling customer acquisition in a digital [00:44:00] world.
Caitlin: Yeah. Yeah.
Josh: A couple of times in this podcast, many, many times off recording with good friends in the industry. You guys have the sexiest story around. Like credit unions are a sexy story. Like you go talk to anybody like you and I, like we’re the dorks that have the conversations with our Uber drivers,
Caitlin: Yes.
Josh: I get a chance to have a conversation about finances with them, One of two things happens. They’re either already at a credit union or they’re not. And when I start to tell them the sexy story of credit unions or community banks, they either are like, hell yeah, brother, like preaching from the mountains. I’m with you. I love that. I’m a member already. Or they’re like, holy crap. Where has this been my whole life? Like, that’s what I need. And so, the story is incredibly compelling. It’s just not getting globalized. It’s not getting to people in [00:45:00] resonating with the impact. Exactly that, Like if I put you in front of your community talking about, Hey, look, I’m the CEO of this little credit union and I am so ruthlessly committed to generational financial stability for you. Like, how do you not get people’s ears to perk up over that? And I think sometimes, and this is where I like, maybe you can really believe what I’m saying because.
If I was being self-serving, I would actually tell you something different because I sell digital banking solutions, but like so many times we talk about, well, it’s all about just convenience. It’s all about digital services. And I would argue that it’s really easy for us to compete digitally with anyone today with the right partners,
The right partners. And with a reasonable budget. I think you can absolutely go toe to [00:46:00] toe with Chase with B of A with Chime with any of the neobanks. Absolutely think you can go toe to toe with them. Your challenge is customer acquisition going toe to toe with them because they have massive budgets for customer acquisition.
So you’ve got to think scrappy like we always have as the small players in the space for customer acquisition. But in terms of just convenience and ease of use and features and all of that. Like you can pretty easily go toe to toe. If you make some of the right decisions, you rip out some legacy band aids and some things holding you back and you do it
But so, what I’ve been really fascinated to get your perspective on is one, do you think I’m crazy? But like, when you apply your own lens to this as now the CEO of the credit union. Like, how are you thinking about maintaining relevance for your members? And what does that translate into like [00:47:00] strategic objectives and how does that become operationalized and how does that turn into products and services?
Caitlin: Yeah. So, our membership, a really quick overview of that. Farm Credit Employees, we are servicing the employees who deal with Farmers of America. So Farm Credit Services is a nationwide company. They are the parent company and there’s a bunch of organizations that fall under their umbrella. The Farm Credit Services is split up over the country in funding bank districts.
And so my membership, we serve the Agribank District of Farm Credit Services. And so what that translates into is about 15 different states in the Midwest. And so being a smaller credit union, one branch in St. Paul, Minnesota, I have to figure out how to reach my members in Michigan, how to reach my members in Kentucky, in [00:48:00] Montana, in Texas, and everything in between.
And so looking forward to that, I feel like it’s the same exact, I have the same exact mentality I should say, is the fact that we can compete with time, with them all, with all these online financial services, with the right tools, it’s just not one size fits all. So I have to start focusing on what’s actually important to my members, and how do I figure out what’s important to my members?
Talk to them. I treat them like people. I don’t treat them like numbers. They’re not numbers. They’re people who have very
Josh: Sorry, what? Talk to them. That’s such a novel concept.
Caitlin: Right I know and it’s like we oftentimes and you know what I can be realistic that when i’m in my day to day stuff and i’m really really busy. It’s hard to break away and to make time to talk to someone.
But I love that. I love that part of my job and I always have to be able to connect one on one with these members because they’re going to tell you what they need [00:49:00] and what they want even if they don’t come out and say it. They’ll tell you if you read between the lines what’s important to them, their family time, their vacation time, their weekend plans, like all of these different things.
You can figure out what’s important to them by just hearing their story. And at one of my credit unions before when we did sales training, the big scary word of sales, which is really not scary. It’s, it’s, it’s learning your membership and creating, creating that kind of like, I was, identifying it as like a menu at a restaurant.
What’s gonna be appetizing for them today? What’s gonna fit into their day to day life? Because what might work for Josh isn’t gonna work for John. And so by and how I’m going to identify that is by talking to them and treating them like a human being And understanding what’s important to them and what’s not important to them.
So I’m not selling them products, I’m fitting them into the right products and services that best fit their [00:50:00] life and so I’m looking at this and I’m making visits to these different associations. I’ve already visited a financial Association Up in Michigan and we just visited somewhere in Kentucky.
And so we’re, we’re getting that face time with our members and our potential members of what’s important to them. What are they looking for? Let’s have a conversation. What’s important to you today and in the future, how can we as your credit union, and I can’t emphasize it enough. We are your credit union.
You are the only members that we potentially can have. So what will make it that much more impactful? What will Make us more appealing to you and they’ll tell you they’ll tell you all day. I’m sick of interest rates and interest rates are so crazy. They’re all over the board and these members that I have or these potential members are so financially savvy as it is because they’re the ones lending out to farmers.
That’s who their customers are. They already know the industry standards and the industry ups and [00:51:00] downs that are happening right now. So it’s, it’s literally having those meaningful conversations and building that rapport with them to understand how we’re going to succeed. I can make guesses all day long.
I can view it from my perspective of what my family needs from us and how we need to operate to be successful in life. But that’s just my opinion. I’m not representing my entire membership. So figuring out exactly what they need is how I’m being strategic on the further products and services I am looking to offer in the future or tweaking what we already have. And a lot of that’s the interest rates kind of thing, like auto loans, home equities, deposits, all of those kinds of stuff.
Josh: I think that’s too, where it gets really interesting when you start looking at those of you listening, we [00:52:00] were kind of talking earlier, before the recording about just even taking community financial services out of the picture and just talking about like retail. And there’s absolutely a place for Amazon, but there’s also absolutely a place for Etsy shops. And then there’s also a place for a local bakery that I have to go in and get a donut from king of everything in between to be successful at any of those stages or any of those business models, you have to be really good at understanding what your value proposition is,
Caitlin:
Josh: And. My value proposition of why I might shop on Amazon versus why I might shop at the local bakery is very different, But I do want both of those things. Like sometimes, yeah, I just want [00:53:00] the freaking convenience of it showing up on my door, overnight from Amazon. And yeah, there are those times where I really want to go sit down at the local coffee shop and have a fresh pastry and talk to the owner.
And so understanding kind of your why, and then figuring out how and if scalable, Because I think what’s fascinating is that, for you as the CEO to go and talk to your members and just ask them why that works really, really well. But if you had 1. 2 million members like that might get a little challenging for you to do personally.
So, how do you, how do you do that really well at your size? And then, I will argue that there are really big credit unions that are still really good at that,
Caitlin: Yeah
Josh: understand their membership. Like you were referencing the billion dollar credit union. You want to give them the shout out.
Would you mind
Caitlin: I do it’s affinity plus and [00:54:00] they’re so well known in this state and I know that they’re not well known across the country too because it starts with their leadership. They’re awesome. They just get it, and I love that it’s exactly that. Like, Dave Larson doesn’t shy away from showing up to a community event and just explaining their why Hey, this is affinities why, this is what we’re doing. This is why we do it and we’re so happy to be here and we appreciate you guys, and we want to be a staple in this community. I mean, he’s all over the state. He will show up to all of the branch openings. He’ll show up to those community events, and I think it’s so special. He walks the walk and he talks the talk and he has instilled in his leadership team, too. That’s what you do.
That’s just who you are. That’s what the credit union movement is all about. And I think it’s so great and he’s someone I genuinely look up to. He’s a little intimidating because of how [00:55:00] much I think he’s doing so well on the credit union as a whole, but that’s what I aspire to be and I feel like I do have some of that in me as well.
I just, I absolutely love talking to people. I’m such an extrovert sometimes. I’m such an extrovert. I become a little bit of an introvert at times because I’m just always excited to hear other people’s stories. I’m excited to understand why are they picking a big bank over their small town, credit union, or community bank too, because I think there’s a lot of similarities there.
But it’s like I want to understand why your checking account is somewhere else and you only have a savings account here? What is it that we could do better? And I think there’s such an opportunity there that they’ll tell you boldface, well, you don’t offer any interest rates on your checking accounts, or you don’t have a tapless card right now at your institution.
Well, hey, that’s good feedback. Maybe I’ll look into that. Maybe I’ll add an interest rate. Maybe I’ll add contactless [00:56:00] cards or whatever the case may be, and I mean, just spreading the word, I, something that was really tough that I learned pretty quick. we, we offer, or we sponsored one of our SEGS conferences last fall.
First time ever. For this credit union in our 90 year existence, we have never sponsored any of our SEGS anything. They’re all staff meetings, they’re conferences, nothing. And I, It was right here in Minnesota. I’m like, yeah, absolutely. We’re going to take advantage of that opportunity. And it was new for them too.
And, just having that first table, that first interaction being seven months into this organization and just being present so many of the conversations were like, I had no idea you guys even existed. And it was like a knife straight to the heart, It’s like, that’s not a place you ever want to be.
However, great that we’re having this opportunity
Josh: we’re here.
Caitlin: Now we’re here. Now [00:57:00] we’re going to get you on board. Here are all the benefits to being on board with your credit union. You are our members. You are our owners of this organization. You have a genuine say in our day to day and what our future looks like.
Like let’s partner, let’s get together. Let’s have these conversations. Let’s build that rapport. And I think, instilling that in the staff that we have here and helping them be exposed in that asset in that kind of geographical location too, they love it. It’s so cool. And yeah, I just I. It’s so unique.
It’s so special and it’s a double edged sword with the never knowing you guys existed but we’re getting there. We’re we’re spreading the good word Mm Yeah
Josh: Just doing that at scale and using affinity as the example of that. We were [00:58:00] saying, you get to that point and you physically can’t talk to as high a percentage of your membership as you can today as the CEO. So there also has to be a really important bidirectional sync of information that’s happening,
Caitlin: Yeah.
Josh: You’ve gotta be able to disseminate really, really well to your leadership, to your frontline staff, to everybody in the organization. What is our why? Why do we exist? Quite frankly, why should anyone care?
Why should they be a member of our credit union? What’s the value we will add to them by doing so? And then at the same time, you’ve got to get information back up that chain of, hey, our call center, they’re, you’re not talking to our members every day anymore, but we are. And here’s we’re, here’s what we’re hearing.
Caitlin: Yeah.
Josh: You gotta take that really seriously, And understand because to you, what you were talking about earlier, Like you’ve got to have your finger on the pulse of what’s going to actually move the needle for [00:59:00] your members. And it’s a combination of data, understanding the industry, understanding, coming trends and what’s on the horizon.
What you may need to plan for that your members don’t even know about yet. And just good old fashioned, like, Hey, tell me what you need. Like. What are you struggling with right now? Like we are an integral part of your financial success. So how can I be a good partner for you in that? Like, what does that look like for you?
Caitlin: And I’m a firm believer that both sides of this can learn, like talking to the members, I can learn from them and they can learn from me because we might have, like I said, we, we didn’t really have a whole lot of a marketing budget or business development budget. And that’s something that is really important to me and I see all of the benefits that come with that.
They naturally do and And I think that it’s just, it’s really important that they understand, and I educate them on what we do have to [01:00:00] offer because a lot of these products, they think of small credit union and it’s crazy because it’s always a topic that comes up and I don’t know why it still comes up, but people have the assumption your credit union, you only offer loans or you only offer savings.
No, we’re fully functioning. We have checking accounts, debit cards, direct deposit, all of the loans you could ever need. Like, it’s funny that we’re still educating on being full-service, but that’s okay. I can preach that all day long. I’m more than willing to help them out with that, so.
Both sides of the coin, we’re constantly learning and I know I’m going to be learning for the rest of my career and the day that I stop learning is the day that I should probably call it quits because I don’t ever want to be the smartest person in the room. I want to always be constantly moving. I mean, my staff, I love having their perspective because they deal more with the day to day operations and [01:01:00] I’ll tap into them. Every once in a while, I’m like, Hey, what’s the trend? What’s what? What are you hearing from our members right now? What? What are they liking? What are they not liking? Are they okay with this new change? Are they okay with this promotion?
Do they have any suggestions? Because I think that’s so vital to our relevancy and our existence. And if we’re going to continue thriving and moving the momentum forward. So I think sometimes leaders fall short of that. They forget that there are different perspectives and the real perspective actually comes from that raw data from our members, that authenticity that our members have.
And I mean, really our members, when they’re members, they want us to thrive. They want us to succeed. So it’s a true partnership. And I, I just feel like we can learn so much from them. If we give them that time of day.
Josh: What are some of the other things that you think are just maybe some of the opportunities and challenges in maintaining [01:02:00] relevance, as we’re starting to see like more entrance into financial services and the game really significantly changing from being like to provide your financial services, you had to ride your horse over to the bank to now you could be in, you give me the Bahamas and you’re, on your phone doing your banking with your 17 million credit union in Minnesota.
Like how do you, like what’s your crystal ball?
Caitlin: Our biggest challenge is just budget because we are smaller, our accessibility to larger partners or vendors is a little bit more skewed. Something that we have a challenge as well is that not all vendors will work with small credit unions, which is kind of a tough pill to swallow because again, a lot of these vendors, whether they be QSOs or they’re just [01:03:00] heavily penetrated into the credit union market.
I feel like they should understand that there are credit unions of all asset sizes and certain products and services could benefit any credit union at any size. But there’s been a couple of times where I’ve been turned away because we’re too small, which is, that’s tough.
But, just finding those areas of opportunity and those wins, no matter what size they are, whether they’re small or big. I mean, last year because I decided to jump all in on the deep end of the pool, we had to move our branch right away last year because I found out the first week, one of those pain points right off the bat, found out the first week our lease had expired three months prior and there was no resolution as to what was going to happen next.
There was no conversation between the landlord and my predecessor about what was going to happen. So I took it upon myself to [01:04:00] start doing my own research and figured we needed to move. We were a couple blocks away from our current location and found a spot inside the same building that our membership actually is.
Farm Credit Services is in this tower and Anchor Bank. So, two of our main members are right in the same facility. So, switching locations and then completely updating our website as well. Two very outdated items. And just the feedback on these two things alone, the freshness, it’s almost like providing that breath and back into the credit union that it’s bright, it’s fresh, it’s renewed.
Like we’re top of the order again, too. I think a lot of banking has to do with psychology and finding those things that make sense to our members. Like, I don’t know when I’m personally, I’m looking for a financial institution. Might be a little bit part of being a millennial, but I love that instantaneous gratification,
I [01:05:00] love being able to see something that is up to date and relevant. Like that just speaks to me right away. Like that’s what, that’s what hooks me right away is, is their website up to date? Does it have the actual information on board? Like, and if it doesn’t, I’m shopping somewhere else. Can I access my funds right away?
Yep. Okay, great. There’s another hook into it. So. Trying to figure out those ways. I mean, we had a couple of other items that were a little bit outdated and we have got projects in the works right now, imaging system, contactless cards, these kinds of things, just finding those ways to stay relevant and keep on the industry norm that’s happening right now in the industry updates and not having to throw the credit union under the bus and spend a all of the money.
So finding wins like that and being able to reach out to our members and stay on top of it.
Josh: Yeah, I think that is a unique challenge of being a credit union too. [01:06:00] If you were literally spending your members’ money literally, and they are owners of the credit union, whether they realize it or not. And so you have to be really thoughtful about it. I need to be mindful of spending their money, but I also need to spend their money because they gave it to me to provide them services.
So how do I provide them the services that are going to have the highest return on investment for them?
Caitlin: Yeah.
Josh: And it’s not like you have a traditional feedback loop of your customers of how they want you to spend their money, So it’s like, you’re, you’re kind of having to do this sometimes in vacuum.
I mean, it is one of the things that I really wish we did get more engagement from people, Like, I mean, it’s no secret. I’ve talked about it before. I sit on the board of a credit union and like our member participation is a joke. Like every year, we have our [01:07:00] annual member appreciation event and we have town halls and we elicit feedback from members and you get like one person and it’s somebody who used to sit on the supervisory committee or something and just got busy and it’s like, man, you guys, look, we’re genuinely trying to provide value to you and we welcome your input.
So I wish we saw more of that, but it is just, it is a really interesting challenge that you’re like, we’re, we’re trying to spend somebody else’s money for them in a way that’ll actually be beneficial to them. And a lot of times without even their input whatsoever.
Caitlin: And it’s so daunting because it’s like I don’t, being a new CEO and I think everyone holds us a little bit Right is like you don’t want to make the wrong decision and it’s like I don’t want to spend too much money. But I know that in order to spend money it is more attractive and it benefits the return on investment. All those things like it’s a happy balance That i’m learning as well and that’s kind of a [01:08:00] balancing act throughout every level of this job.
But like yeah, it’s tough to figure out where we are going to invest our money? Where are we not going to invest it? What’s important? What’s not important? And then what if I make the wrong decision? What if I think that X is important, but actually it was Y that was more important to the membership.
So again, it ties back to that’s where it’s important to have these visits to these associations that we have and identify what’s important to them. What are they seeing in their own industry trends? What are they seeing amongst peers or like Michigan what’s happening in Michigan because it’s definitely not the same thing that’s happening in Minnesota and identifying those differences Yeah,
Josh: Every opportunity I get a chance to have this conversation, especially in a public for I like to, and it’s the whole, my credit union is too small for you conversation, and that’s a really interesting one [01:09:00] because I sit on both sides of that conversation,
As a vendor to credit unions. I understand what it costs and what it takes for us to deploy a solution.
Caitlin: sure
Josh: And as much as I would absolutely love to just give it away to every single small credit union, I would quickly be out of a job. Like we have to be a sustainable company, And at the same time, like we understand what it costs to be innovative. And I think that is also a very interesting element of this conversation is there’s kind of a minimum viable point for us to be a sustainable company and just say, I can continue to deploy this for credit unions over and over again.
Caitlin: yeah,
Josh: Kind of rinse it, repeat it. And so if we get into pricing negotiations, you can drive [01:10:00] me down pretty far on my price.
Cause I know this is my floor of what I can actually deliver the solution I have today with.
Caitlin:
Josh: And if you’re okay within five years when the first contract comes up for renewal and hopefully 10 or 15 cause that’s actually really where I’m going to recoup my costs.
Caitlin: Mm hmm.
Josh: It being the exact same solution that neither of us have touched, then yeah, I can give it to you at this price.
Caitlin: Yeah.
Josh: But if you want me to continue to hire in resources and invest in innovation and talent, and if you want me to protect our IP so that we make sure that credit unions are the ones that have access to it, well, there’s a cost associated with that. So now my cost of doing business is higher if you expect me to be innovative and continually innovative.
Caitlin:
Josh: But at the same time, we service an industry that is different. Like, it’s not like, I don’t know. I’m trying to think of like a dirty example so to [01:11:00] really easy, but it’s like, it’s not like I’m serving like pirates, I’m like, okay if I gouge these guys over and over again and if we tell some of them to pound sand, like they’re pirates, they’re not good people.
But it’s like I serve credit unions. And so like the thought of telling a credit union no or saying like, Hey, I’m really sorry, but like, this is the minimum cost for my product. And you can’t afford it like that sucks, sucks, a lot of sucks. And so what I think is really, really important for this industry is to find ways to meet in the middle of that.
And so the reason I say I love to have this conversation when it comes up, I even actually just was texting with this woman, just a couple of days ago and I told her this exact statement. I was talking to Tracy Miller from Pioneer Credit Union that every single time, like if I had a dollar for every time I have referenced her for this, I would be retired. And she has just been [01:12:00] such an incredibly intelligent individual in navigating that. And she will kind of look at basically like, I’m going to oversimplify it, but maybe like three buckets of vendors. And it’s like, this is their core product. It’s their solution and I can afford it today. And it just is what it is.
I’ll just go through the normal sales process. And then there’s the, I can’t afford this, but they’re kind of new. So they’re looking for people to take chances on them. So I’ll put a video testimonial on your website for you. I’ll be a reference client for you and I’ll be a beta tester for you. And I’ll let you screw up every once in a while for me, as long as it’s not catastrophic.
But here’s the price I want for it and I’m going to be a loss leader for you. You ain’t going to make money on me, but I’ll help you win some deals that will make you some money. And then she kind of has the third bucket, which is like, Hey, maybe they’re more established. That’s not as attractive to them and maybe I can’t afford it, but you know [01:13:00] what?
I have four other credit unions that are also kind of interested in the same boat. So collectively the four of us or five of us or whatever, we’ll go to that vendor and be like, Hey, look, I know you think I’m too small. But me plus my five friends over here, we’re a pretty good sized customer.
How about you talk to all of us and you can win four or five new logos just like that because we’ll all together, And Caitlin, she’s just crushing the game with like getting partnerships with vendors that credit unions twice her size are like still trying to figure out how to get into the budget,
And so I think there’s a, and, but at the same time, like there also has to be some understanding from vendors when you enter this space, like, Hey, you know what, if the customer base I’m going to service is credit unions and community banks, and I really and truly care about their success, there’s going to be a few I’m not going to make a buck on.
Caitlin: Yeah.
Josh: But that’s what I need to do to do the right thing because I care about the stability of this industry. [01:14:00] that’s a really hard balance to strike. But, I think it’s a really important one to talk to your vendors about, is like, is that, is that the ethos of your organization? Cause that’s going to tell you a lot about how they’re going to do business with you.
Let’s just make two cents.
Caitlin: No,
Josh: That’s my soapbox. You got me on.
Caitlin: No, it’s good, because it is. You know what, it’s an industry that’s ever, ever, ever, ever. So evolving and we need to identify new strategic ways to get things accomplished because we’re all in it together, So I love that idea of like partnering with other credit unions similar at asset size and coming to vendors of like, okay Maybe one is not the number but five of us like that’s it’s innovative and it’s it’s great And there are those opportunities all across the board that it just takes a little bit of effort and a little bit of care to go into it and a little bit of empathy, I think. So, no, I love that idea.
Josh: And that kind of comes back to exactly what you kind of started with, it’s [01:15:00] like you have the opportunity to sometimes just say, Hey, you know what? Like I can’t compete. I’m just going to fold in the towel. or, or like, we’re, we’re going to do this. We’re going to commit to it and we’re going to figure out how to do it cause where there’s a will, there’s a way. And I think that’s
Caitlin: Oh, absolutely.
Josh: Again, especially in the credit union industry. So it’s really cool to see people like you, like seriously, I mean, you got me really fired up in Orlando talking to you. I was like, now this is the kind of woman I want to see running a credit union.
Like she’s just getting after it. Like, and there’s just, I don’t know, there’s just getting after it can’t be bought
Caitlin: Exactly.
Josh: Got just getting after it.
Caitlin: Man, and I try as much as, all this like passion and excitement I have in me, I’m like trying to dump some of it on anyone that can, that will listen to me and like anyone that wants to come work for me and just like, let’s do it together. And it’s, I, I was just telling one of my [01:16:00] staff members that it’s like, I have, I know what works and I’ve done it.
I’ve done a lot. I’ve learned a lot of hard lessons over my career. Trust me, way more hard lessons than I ever want to admit to. But they’re, they’re what shaped me to be what I am today. And it’s like, I’ve done a lot of things. I’ve mentioned a couple of the organizations, programs I went through with the Minnesota Credit Union Network but then through the National Credit Union Foundation the DE program and the financial oh My gosh, I’m totally blinking on it right now, but financial counselor.
There we go Good Lord but like going through all these different things going to the peer to peer sessions being on boards on the credit unions for kids committee on the crew young professionals advisory board on our chapter board all of these different things and like listen up, if you’re going to be one of my staff members, like, I might kind of shove it down your throat a little bit, but it’s because I’m so passionate and I know I see the potential and I see [01:17:00] all of the benefits that it has to you as your individual.
I’m like, we’re going to get after it. We’re going to, we’re going to change the world. We’re going to change our members’ lives. And that’s what we’re here to do. And we have to continuously understand why we are showing up to work every single day. Why are we making a difference? Why are we making an impact?
Like if you’re just here to collect a paycheck, we got to figure something else out because we are here to make a difference and we are here to make financial wellbeing for all. Thanks. Yeah. Well,
Josh: Seriously, for those of you listening, like when we were just talking about, me kind of writing up Caitlin’s intro, she was like, oh yeah, it’s always hard to hear those things because you’re like, it’s [01:18:00] hard to like hear so much positivity about yourself you’re like, Oh, is that like, or whatever. And, and like, I really do want you to hear this from somebody outside of whatever, like you have a really cool story, seriously, and you should be really, really proud of what you have done and what you’re working on.
And I mean, you are absolutely someone to watch and a credit union to watch because I think you’re going to do some really exciting things. Because it is, it is just that like brute force gut passion that is irreplaceable. And you’re going to do some really cool stuff. So I’m really honored to have met you and to consider you in my friend circle.
Cause, you’re going to do some really cool things. And I just selfishly want to grab some popcorn and sit back and watch.
Caitlin: Well, I appreciate that that’s so kind if you made me cringe again for the second time. So again, it [01:19:00] must be right, Like it’s it’s absolutely that it’s it’s tough to hear just because it’s we’re our own toughest critics and I know my my story isn’t done and it’s like I said ten years feels like it just happened a year ago that I got started in this movement. And it’s, I have so far to go.
I have so much to learn and so many more mountains to move, but it’s cool. I gotta, I’m learning that. I’m learning grace right now to appreciate where I’ve been and where I’m at and then continue that focus on moving forward. And what can I do next? What, what next battle I can tackle? It’s cool. I love it.
I love this industry.
Josh: I feel like you and I should make a pact right here. And now I’m going to put you on the spot that if either one of us ever gets to the point where we’re just mailing it in and that passion is gone, like we’ll fly out to the other one and kick them in the shins.
Caitlin: Absolutely. I am pro shin kicking. So yes, Absolutely. [01:20:00] I will. And I will happily accept it as well.
Josh: That’s awesome. Well, before I let you go, two final questions for you. So where do you go to get information? What keeps you energized and excited? What are your favorite places to get intel on what’s going on in the industry?
Caitlin: I am always creeping around on LinkedIn. I’m not going to lie. There are the America’s Credit Unions, National Credit Union Foundation, Minnesota Credit Union Network. I’m always bopping around, viewing all of the different things that people have to offer out on my feed. Conferences, I just got back from CU Relevant, which is amazing.
And if anyone has not attended, highly recommend attending that one. It’s just keeping the relevancy alive, and it’s a great conference. I mean, These things fill my cup. I love connecting with peers and just hearing other people’s stories. I love hearing outsiders perspective and by outsiders [01:21:00] outside of Minnesota,
All walks of life, all different types of positions held in the industry. I’m a big Simon Sinek fan. I don’t know if I’m saying his last name correctly. Got a couple of his good books. I love watching him speak too, so just, I don’t know anything and everything that I can get my hands on and refer it over to me.
I love, love hearing and love watching and seeing and reading up on
Josh: I love the Simon Sinek call out. Like, I think I’ve said it before, but it’s worth reiterating anytime it comes up. Like on this podcast, if you work in this industry, especially, and you have not seen his quite old at this point, TedTalk on why, how, what
Caitlin: yes.
Josh: a thousand percent still spot on relevant.
And if you have not watched it, like you’re missing out, you need to watch this and you need to have a conversation [01:22:00] about it in your organization, like period and a story. Yeah.
Caitlin: I could listen to him for hours.
Josh: Yeah. Last but not least, if people want to learn more about your credit union or if they want to chat with you, how can they do that?
Caitlin: Yes! So, like I said, I’m super active on LinkedIn. Pretty easy to find me there. I’m usually tagged in a post or I’m constantly posting myself. But then on our website we’ve got www.cfefcu.com. You will find my contact information floating around on there, but I got a great website there too.
Josh: I was going to say, yeah, shout out to go peep the new website too.
Caitlin: Yes, yeah, it’s fun. It is, it is certainly a lot more fun learning a lot through that as well.
Josh: Oh, that’s great. Seriously, this has been a blast. Thank you so much for coming and being a guest on the Digital Banking Podcast.
Caitlin: Yeah, so excited to have been able to have the opportunity. I really appreciate it.
Josh: Thanks Caitlin.
Caitlin: Yes.